I went for Obama who is calling for requiring parents to get insurance for their kids so they can go to the doctor. That’s something not too expensive as most kids are relatively healthy and I think his plan calls for some help for the people working and who’s income puts them between Medicaid and being able to afford insurance.
Clinton does raise a real issue (same one Romney before he became a conservative raised) which is what do you do with the guy who can afford health care but figures he will take a chance and if anything major comes along he can stick the government or hospital with the bill. I don’t support mandatory coverage for all but do see there is a real problem here.
Before debating if the solution is correct, perhaps we can see if we’ve identified the correct problem in the first place. My view is that all citizens not having health insurance is NOT a problem… it is merely a choice.
The response will most likely be that prohibitive cost removes the idea of choice. Nonsense. One can afford health insurance by giving up smoking, drinking, or sharing one car instead of having two. Tens of thousands of low-income families do this every year. Because their choice to protect their children with health insurance is more important to them that the status of that 2nd car, or a fancier house that they also cannot afford.
My view is that the problems with health care are not being discussed. Med Mal premiums, folks, are not the driving force, by the way. I agree there are needs to improve the court issues and verdict nonsense – but that will not impact the scales as you hope they will.
The greater cost savings throughout the health industry is waste, pure and simple. Every analysis of any such system has proven that lack of use, duplicate equipment sitting idle, expired materials, etc are by far the largest area for improvement. There are all kinds of facilities with very expensive gear that are not getting used — while there are other places trying to use the same materials 3 times intended capacity.
The ugliest problem has been cited, but isn’t popular to talk about – health providers being openly allowed to turn away patients (by the way, they figure out how to do some of this on their own). Why this is so unpleasant for people I don’t understand… but it is needed in a world that uses money to buy things.
If a homeless person is hungry or needs a blanket, they cannot go to Safeway and take the food… but they can go to a hospital, who is forced to treat them. How silly is that?… we don’t address the front problem, but we cry over the end result?
Illegal aliens are one of our greatest financial sins on this subject. They walk into any hospital and get any service they need. This is a GREAT encouragement for any sick foreigner to come here… if your child was sick, and this was how to get them treated, you would move mountains to do it. And so we pay for this… while not feeding that homeless American at the Safeway. Not very clever, are we?
Let people that want health insurance buy a basic policy with a large deductible if they want to. Get health insurance out of the employers offices — the tax issues are what screws that up — your employer has no business picking your health plan in the first place. Then if people don’t want to buy their own policy, they don’t have to.
Then merely tell the health providers that they do not have to treat patients, other than to the level of immediate first aid ONLY. No beds, no rooms, no specialists… just a first aid station style for ABC basics.
For the waste, that will come only when there are less interference issues by government in the first place. If you want to see how government costs layer each step, just review the method of Medicaid and Medicare billing auditing that are already in place. That’s more than a 15% cost kick all by itself, just in auditors and billing clerks.
While I realize the emotional issues are the ones that get talked about… the politicians are playing you on a field they’ve set up where they can beat you. If they address the ACTUAL problems, then they have to be accountable. Instead, you need to focus on the root causes, and not the symptoms, or the complications that have developed because of the errors at the beginning. Go back to the basics.
“…what do you do with the guy who can afford health care but figures he will take a chance and if anything major comes along he can stick the government or hospital with the bill?”
I like how everyone reacts negatively to this. What is the difference if the communists take my money via taxes and then spend it on things I don’t approve of, or if they force me to spend my money on something? Either way, they have taken my money.
This will happen someday. Remember, the UNITED STATES was founded as a REPUBLIC, and NOT a DEMOCRACY, as we now have.
As a wise man once said:
“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage. ”
KLS, I agree with you on principle. But, they won’t take any tax dollars from the deadbeats. They never do. She’ll make sure that there are all kinds of loopholes for “low income” translate no income, no working, breeding out of wedlock like rabbits, scumbags, who are referred to as the “poor families” by the drive by media. You and I will be taxed to the hilt and get NOTHING, just like always
This country has for over 50 years ran the darn near perfect socialized medicine. The agency who runs it is The V.A. (Veterans Affairs) If you are eligabale for veterans medical you can be treated in Ca. on Friday, go visiting in Fla on the next Tuesday get sick and ALL of yourr records including your last visint is part of a nationwide data bank that ANY physican or hospital can access.
If it can work for the V.A. why can’t we make it work for ALL Americans?
As far as this not getting a larger posting, let’s not forget the parade for the NY Giants. It goes to show how many are still involved in Superbowl.
Clinton vs Obama, I don’t think either is the best for America. Mr. Obama keeps saying he never voted for the war. Of course not, he wan’t in the senate and wasn’t allowed to. Dah. Sen. Clinton says if she would have been given the truth about the situation and not lied to by Pres. Bush she would not have voted for it. The bottom line is the entire country was lied to. She should have voted her own conscience and not use a crutch now.
The dem’s better start looking for some better qualified candidates, it appears the field is getting mighty slim
Willy-I have no problem with a collection agency but the problem comes when you have someone go in for something major. We can be talking about big bucks. I know someone who had a baby in neonatal care for 4-5 months and the bill was way over $100,000. Luckily they had insurance but is it realistic to expect to get real money from someone making $40-50k? You would be lucky to get enough to pay the interest running up on the judgment.
Hmm, let’s see. We have a group of individual men & women that calls themselves government. They derive their revenue through violence or the threat thereof. So why is anyone surprised when some lowlife, scum sucking, parasite-er, I mean politician (with apologies to all lowlife, scum sucking parasites)-proposes something like this?
O.K. I’ll save everyone’s time and list the cliche, zombie mind, statist responses that are inevitable to anyone who even dares to think that governments can possibly do anything wrong: but what about (the children, health care, the roads, ad nauseam)? What are you, an anarchist? If you don’t like it here why don’t you leave? What would happen if…? Well, we’ve got the best system in the world here.
So, now on to Hillary’s Plan. Would like to know how she would propose to monitor it. For example, say I am divorced. My ex provides the health insurance for me and my children via his health ins. plan. Or, I opt to reject cover offered by my employer and purchase my own. How does she suggest these and other options be monitored and kept current-? PLEASE, don’t suggest that we monitor it like we do uninsured auto drivers. THAT works well-NOT!!
Also, no one has mentioned COBRA option. For the majority of folks, if they are unemployed, paying the exorbitant COBRA premiums is a joke. Just paying for food/shelter is a challenge.
RE: the homeless. There, but by the grace of GOD go many of us. Your livelihood can disappear in a millisecond. Unless we’ve been there, not to judge. All homeless folks don’t drink/smoke, etc. away their funds.
I say we drill down on the ambulance chaser attornies and take a look at our legal system and the awards that being handed out. Insurance companies get the bad rap, but they have to pay what our courts say to pay. Somebody has to pay premiums for those huge judgments. Maybe if our judicial system would be addressed/corrected, health insurance premiums would go down to where MOST could afford it.
There’s no perfect answer, but Billary’s suggestion bites!
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I went for Obama who is calling for requiring parents to get insurance for their kids so they can go to the doctor. That’s something not too expensive as most kids are relatively healthy and I think his plan calls for some help for the people working and who’s income puts them between Medicaid and being able to afford insurance.
Clinton does raise a real issue (same one Romney before he became a conservative raised) which is what do you do with the guy who can afford health care but figures he will take a chance and if anything major comes along he can stick the government or hospital with the bill. I don’t support mandatory coverage for all but do see there is a real problem here.
Before debating if the solution is correct, perhaps we can see if we’ve identified the correct problem in the first place. My view is that all citizens not having health insurance is NOT a problem… it is merely a choice.
The response will most likely be that prohibitive cost removes the idea of choice. Nonsense. One can afford health insurance by giving up smoking, drinking, or sharing one car instead of having two. Tens of thousands of low-income families do this every year. Because their choice to protect their children with health insurance is more important to them that the status of that 2nd car, or a fancier house that they also cannot afford.
My view is that the problems with health care are not being discussed. Med Mal premiums, folks, are not the driving force, by the way. I agree there are needs to improve the court issues and verdict nonsense – but that will not impact the scales as you hope they will.
The greater cost savings throughout the health industry is waste, pure and simple. Every analysis of any such system has proven that lack of use, duplicate equipment sitting idle, expired materials, etc are by far the largest area for improvement. There are all kinds of facilities with very expensive gear that are not getting used — while there are other places trying to use the same materials 3 times intended capacity.
The ugliest problem has been cited, but isn’t popular to talk about – health providers being openly allowed to turn away patients (by the way, they figure out how to do some of this on their own). Why this is so unpleasant for people I don’t understand… but it is needed in a world that uses money to buy things.
If a homeless person is hungry or needs a blanket, they cannot go to Safeway and take the food… but they can go to a hospital, who is forced to treat them. How silly is that?… we don’t address the front problem, but we cry over the end result?
Illegal aliens are one of our greatest financial sins on this subject. They walk into any hospital and get any service they need. This is a GREAT encouragement for any sick foreigner to come here… if your child was sick, and this was how to get them treated, you would move mountains to do it. And so we pay for this… while not feeding that homeless American at the Safeway. Not very clever, are we?
Let people that want health insurance buy a basic policy with a large deductible if they want to. Get health insurance out of the employers offices — the tax issues are what screws that up — your employer has no business picking your health plan in the first place. Then if people don’t want to buy their own policy, they don’t have to.
Then merely tell the health providers that they do not have to treat patients, other than to the level of immediate first aid ONLY. No beds, no rooms, no specialists… just a first aid station style for ABC basics.
For the waste, that will come only when there are less interference issues by government in the first place. If you want to see how government costs layer each step, just review the method of Medicaid and Medicare billing auditing that are already in place. That’s more than a 15% cost kick all by itself, just in auditors and billing clerks.
While I realize the emotional issues are the ones that get talked about… the politicians are playing you on a field they’ve set up where they can beat you. If they address the ACTUAL problems, then they have to be accountable. Instead, you need to focus on the root causes, and not the symptoms, or the complications that have developed because of the errors at the beginning. Go back to the basics.
“…what do you do with the guy who can afford health care but figures he will take a chance and if anything major comes along he can stick the government or hospital with the bill?”
It’s called a collection agency.
I like how everyone reacts negatively to this. What is the difference if the communists take my money via taxes and then spend it on things I don’t approve of, or if they force me to spend my money on something? Either way, they have taken my money.
This will happen someday. Remember, the UNITED STATES was founded as a REPUBLIC, and NOT a DEMOCRACY, as we now have.
As a wise man once said:
“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage. ”
Please remember this when you vote.
Good ones, both of you.
KLS, I agree with you on principle. But, they won’t take any tax dollars from the deadbeats. They never do. She’ll make sure that there are all kinds of loopholes for “low income” translate no income, no working, breeding out of wedlock like rabbits, scumbags, who are referred to as the “poor families” by the drive by media. You and I will be taxed to the hilt and get NOTHING, just like always
This country has for over 50 years ran the darn near perfect socialized medicine. The agency who runs it is The V.A. (Veterans Affairs) If you are eligabale for veterans medical you can be treated in Ca. on Friday, go visiting in Fla on the next Tuesday get sick and ALL of yourr records including your last visint is part of a nationwide data bank that ANY physican or hospital can access.
If it can work for the V.A. why can’t we make it work for ALL Americans?
As far as this not getting a larger posting, let’s not forget the parade for the NY Giants. It goes to show how many are still involved in Superbowl.
Clinton vs Obama, I don’t think either is the best for America. Mr. Obama keeps saying he never voted for the war. Of course not, he wan’t in the senate and wasn’t allowed to. Dah. Sen. Clinton says if she would have been given the truth about the situation and not lied to by Pres. Bush she would not have voted for it. The bottom line is the entire country was lied to. She should have voted her own conscience and not use a crutch now.
The dem’s better start looking for some better qualified candidates, it appears the field is getting mighty slim
Willy-I have no problem with a collection agency but the problem comes when you have someone go in for something major. We can be talking about big bucks. I know someone who had a baby in neonatal care for 4-5 months and the bill was way over $100,000. Luckily they had insurance but is it realistic to expect to get real money from someone making $40-50k? You would be lucky to get enough to pay the interest running up on the judgment.
Hmm, let’s see. We have a group of individual men & women that calls themselves government. They derive their revenue through violence or the threat thereof. So why is anyone surprised when some lowlife, scum sucking, parasite-er, I mean politician (with apologies to all lowlife, scum sucking parasites)-proposes something like this?
O.K. I’ll save everyone’s time and list the cliche, zombie mind, statist responses that are inevitable to anyone who even dares to think that governments can possibly do anything wrong: but what about (the children, health care, the roads, ad nauseam)? What are you, an anarchist? If you don’t like it here why don’t you leave? What would happen if…? Well, we’ve got the best system in the world here.
TO OK: What a great post! much food for thought.
So, now on to Hillary’s Plan. Would like to know how she would propose to monitor it. For example, say I am divorced. My ex provides the health insurance for me and my children via his health ins. plan. Or, I opt to reject cover offered by my employer and purchase my own. How does she suggest these and other options be monitored and kept current-? PLEASE, don’t suggest that we monitor it like we do uninsured auto drivers. THAT works well-NOT!!
Also, no one has mentioned COBRA option. For the majority of folks, if they are unemployed, paying the exorbitant COBRA premiums is a joke. Just paying for food/shelter is a challenge.
RE: the homeless. There, but by the grace of GOD go many of us. Your livelihood can disappear in a millisecond. Unless we’ve been there, not to judge. All homeless folks don’t drink/smoke, etc. away their funds.
I say we drill down on the ambulance chaser attornies and take a look at our legal system and the awards that being handed out. Insurance companies get the bad rap, but they have to pay what our courts say to pay. Somebody has to pay premiums for those huge judgments. Maybe if our judicial system would be addressed/corrected, health insurance premiums would go down to where MOST could afford it.
There’s no perfect answer, but Billary’s suggestion bites!