Well, there was a pre-existing condition according to the court papers that was pretty severe. He had to see several specialist even before the accident at work. He was supposed to be restricted to not sitting or standing for more than 30 minutes at a time. There is an awful lot of physician documentation and none indicated he needed the surgery prior to the accident, so I would probably give him the benefit of the doubt.
Also, I didn\’t see where in the court papers the insurer acted in bad faith Unless denying the claim was the bad faith.
Yeah, that\’s the problem with news coverage of things like this — you never get the details the jury heard.
If his compensating damages are that high and not supported, the judge will knock them down AFTER the entire verdict is in, including the punitives, assuming the jury awards any.
It is a pretty high verdict for Iowa, that\’s for sure. Not exactly a wildly liberal state. So the evidence must\’ve looked pretty bad for Travelers.
I\’ve read some of the responses to this. It doesn\’t sound like anyone has been on WC before. Granted, the amount is huge.
Bad faith??? More details have to be told for the reason and there must have been some pretty good ones for the jury to come up with this.
Lets just say… IT\’S ABOUT TIME and insurance company is finally found on bad faith. If you only knew the amount of bath faith these insurance companies deal out. The insurance companies have been damaging injured workers for years and NO ONE will report it. NO ONE. You can write to anyone from the newspaper to Congress and nothing is done. Finally, someone gets a settlement.
You have to be on WC to understand the stress, hardship and many other things to understand. Trust me, I know and so do thousands of others that have been abused by WC.
Please think about a couple things before anyone calls these jurors idiots, or belittle what they did. This jury sat and listened to detailed evidence and thousands of documents for days and probably weeks on end. They put their own lives on hold while listening to everything that both sides had to say, and reading all the best evidence that both sides could produce. Then they had to unanimously agree on the verdict.
I think that we fall into a trap when we label these jurors \”idiots.\” After all, they actually sat throught hhe trial, and all any of us have done is read a news article about it.
When juries unanimously get furious at a company like this it is usually because they see something that would make you and me just as mad. If you saw systematic cheating and stealing going on, and by doing the math could see that the only way to put a dent in it is to make the verdict bigger than the profits the company is making by cheating, what would you do? You would do the same thing these people did, and then the inurance industry would be encouraging people to write letters to newspapers calling you an idiot.
If a robber hits 100 banks but is caught only once or twice, and as a penalty is forced to give up only the money from those isolated robberies where he was caught, he would be a fool not to go out and rob another 100 banks. Even \”idiot\” juries can figure that one out.
The insurance industry would love to either get rid of the jury system altogether, or impose \”caps\” so that juries really do not have full decision making powers. They want judges and politicians to decide disputes, not ordinarly people off the streets. Why do you suppose that is? Who would have the upper hand if disputes were decided by politicians…the ordinary citizen, or those with extraordinary assets?
I\’m sorry, but I think ordinary people off the streets (jurors) do a great job of deciding these disputes. Unlike politicians or even some judges, they don\’t do favors to one side or the other to try to keep their jobs (as jurors) because they didn\’t ask for the job in the first place and it doesn\’t pay well enought to do anything crooked to keep it. They are hard to bribe, because even if you found a dishonest juror, you would have to bribe all 12 of them, and that is too dangerous. There are no campaign donations to influence them with.
Please leave room for the possibility that this jury did exactly the right thing.
I do have some experience with bad faith claims in Iowa (one level up, not the company alleged to have acted in bad faith) and my experience is that Iowa judges and juries are pretty conservative. Iowa law generally kicks out the bad faith allegations if \”fairly debatable\” or \”reasonably disputed\”, so for this claim to make it to the jury suggests something didn\’t pass an initial smell test. I\’ve not seen the file or the suit pleadings and motions, but the judge and jury did, and they were not pleased.
If the jury has found bad faith, the compensatory damages can range far beyond those damages prescribed by the Iowa WC statute, even before you get to the punitive damages. With $10 million in compensatory damages, even if the jury (and judge) brought the punitive damages verdict, if one, within the Campbell guidelines, Travelers could be looking at a very expensive verdict. I\’m sure they\’ve already started negotiating or preparing their post trial motions…
Once again the Jury is wrong. Any prior problems need to be considered. Claims from people who just do not wish to work anymore. Also, he should only be awarded his potential annual for the amount of years to retirement with minor raises. $10 Million is over kill.
Again, no logic in the Legal system.
Update: the jury added $3 million in punitive damages.
I\’m told by Iowa counsel not involved in the case that this was not a case of someone who didn\’t want to work, or an idiot jury, but a problem with claim handling, though not worth that kind of money. Federal Judge is not one that would usually let a meritless bad faith claim go to jury. Lawyer is still working on the details, but thinks someone somewhere really screwed this up.
You sat through the trial?
You know how much the claimant makes?
You know how old the claimant is?
You have all of the claimants medical bills before you?
You have evidence proving the jury disregarded pre-existing issues?
You have evidence of malpractice on the part of Travelers lawyers?
If the answer to even one of those questions is \”No\”, then I cordially invite you to drink a nice, tall glass of STFU.
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thanks for the info; still makes you wonder if he needed surgery and the paper shuffling was his excuse to get someone to pay for it.
Well, there was a pre-existing condition according to the court papers that was pretty severe. He had to see several specialist even before the accident at work. He was supposed to be restricted to not sitting or standing for more than 30 minutes at a time. There is an awful lot of physician documentation and none indicated he needed the surgery prior to the accident, so I would probably give him the benefit of the doubt.
Also, I didn\’t see where in the court papers the insurer acted in bad faith Unless denying the claim was the bad faith.
Yeah, that\’s the problem with news coverage of things like this — you never get the details the jury heard.
If his compensating damages are that high and not supported, the judge will knock them down AFTER the entire verdict is in, including the punitives, assuming the jury awards any.
It is a pretty high verdict for Iowa, that\’s for sure. Not exactly a wildly liberal state. So the evidence must\’ve looked pretty bad for Travelers.
I\’ve read some of the responses to this. It doesn\’t sound like anyone has been on WC before. Granted, the amount is huge.
Bad faith??? More details have to be told for the reason and there must have been some pretty good ones for the jury to come up with this.
Lets just say… IT\’S ABOUT TIME and insurance company is finally found on bad faith. If you only knew the amount of bath faith these insurance companies deal out. The insurance companies have been damaging injured workers for years and NO ONE will report it. NO ONE. You can write to anyone from the newspaper to Congress and nothing is done. Finally, someone gets a settlement.
You have to be on WC to understand the stress, hardship and many other things to understand. Trust me, I know and so do thousands of others that have been abused by WC.
Please think about a couple things before anyone calls these jurors idiots, or belittle what they did. This jury sat and listened to detailed evidence and thousands of documents for days and probably weeks on end. They put their own lives on hold while listening to everything that both sides had to say, and reading all the best evidence that both sides could produce. Then they had to unanimously agree on the verdict.
I think that we fall into a trap when we label these jurors \”idiots.\” After all, they actually sat throught hhe trial, and all any of us have done is read a news article about it.
When juries unanimously get furious at a company like this it is usually because they see something that would make you and me just as mad. If you saw systematic cheating and stealing going on, and by doing the math could see that the only way to put a dent in it is to make the verdict bigger than the profits the company is making by cheating, what would you do? You would do the same thing these people did, and then the inurance industry would be encouraging people to write letters to newspapers calling you an idiot.
If a robber hits 100 banks but is caught only once or twice, and as a penalty is forced to give up only the money from those isolated robberies where he was caught, he would be a fool not to go out and rob another 100 banks. Even \”idiot\” juries can figure that one out.
The insurance industry would love to either get rid of the jury system altogether, or impose \”caps\” so that juries really do not have full decision making powers. They want judges and politicians to decide disputes, not ordinarly people off the streets. Why do you suppose that is? Who would have the upper hand if disputes were decided by politicians…the ordinary citizen, or those with extraordinary assets?
I\’m sorry, but I think ordinary people off the streets (jurors) do a great job of deciding these disputes. Unlike politicians or even some judges, they don\’t do favors to one side or the other to try to keep their jobs (as jurors) because they didn\’t ask for the job in the first place and it doesn\’t pay well enought to do anything crooked to keep it. They are hard to bribe, because even if you found a dishonest juror, you would have to bribe all 12 of them, and that is too dangerous. There are no campaign donations to influence them with.
Please leave room for the possibility that this jury did exactly the right thing.
I do have some experience with bad faith claims in Iowa (one level up, not the company alleged to have acted in bad faith) and my experience is that Iowa judges and juries are pretty conservative. Iowa law generally kicks out the bad faith allegations if \”fairly debatable\” or \”reasonably disputed\”, so for this claim to make it to the jury suggests something didn\’t pass an initial smell test. I\’ve not seen the file or the suit pleadings and motions, but the judge and jury did, and they were not pleased.
If the jury has found bad faith, the compensatory damages can range far beyond those damages prescribed by the Iowa WC statute, even before you get to the punitive damages. With $10 million in compensatory damages, even if the jury (and judge) brought the punitive damages verdict, if one, within the Campbell guidelines, Travelers could be looking at a very expensive verdict. I\’m sure they\’ve already started negotiating or preparing their post trial motions…
I agree Travelers must have done something particulary egregious in this instance to have a hit so big against them.
From the little to be gleaned from the article it seems a case with reasonable issues to dispute.
Once again the Jury is wrong. Any prior problems need to be considered. Claims from people who just do not wish to work anymore. Also, he should only be awarded his potential annual for the amount of years to retirement with minor raises. $10 Million is over kill.
Again, no logic in the Legal system.
Update: the jury added $3 million in punitive damages.
I\’m told by Iowa counsel not involved in the case that this was not a case of someone who didn\’t want to work, or an idiot jury, but a problem with claim handling, though not worth that kind of money. Federal Judge is not one that would usually let a meritless bad faith claim go to jury. Lawyer is still working on the details, but thinks someone somewhere really screwed this up.
Sheryl-
How do you know it was egregious?
You sat through the trial?
You know how much the claimant makes?
You know how old the claimant is?
You have all of the claimants medical bills before you?
You have evidence proving the jury disregarded pre-existing issues?
You have evidence of malpractice on the part of Travelers lawyers?
If the answer to even one of those questions is \”No\”, then I cordially invite you to drink a nice, tall glass of STFU.