Thank you, My Bad, Oh Yes, Thanks for catching this miss, Cynthia McWhinny deserves to be on this list next to those other Wack-Jobs.
Appreciate your help.
A new twist to State Farm and Allstate\’s hurricane Rita damage UNDER-assessment schemes is to claim that wind debris damage to asphalt / fiberglass roofing system shingles, is not really damage they insure for.
They now claim that when wind borne debris (sand, pebbles, twigs, vegetation, dirt, neighbor\’s roof granules, etc.) strips off shingles granular surface component, sometimes even down to the fiberglass matting, that that abrasive striping of the shingle…is not (wink-wink) reallllyy shingle damage.
Another (untrue) claim they both are spreading, (Allstate through Pilot Claim Service adjusters), in and around the Beaumont Texas region, and in Florida, is that the tar sealant bond that keeps one shingle attached to the one below it, is also not (wink-wink) reallllyy shingle damage when wind lift breaks the bond.
(Only naive, uneducated and tired policyholders believe, or \”accept\” that damaged property assessment double-speak nonsense…)
As wind loads break apart a shingle\’s (factory engineered and wind warrantied) tar sealant bond, and leaves behind debris under the shingles, the heat from the sun commonly causes the debris to become attached to the tar and commonly prohibits the shingles from (thermally) sealing back together…an obvious danger to the home / business structure, and to the future welfare of the inhabitants of the structure…especially along the hurricane prone Gulf Coast.
To help Allstate / Pilot Claim Service and State Farm (permanently?) correct their shingle wind damage assessment errors, and voluntarily reopen untold thousands of claims incorrectly assessed, and to help the general public receive a reasonable shingle roofing system wind damage assessment review from insurance adjusters, the following fresh technical information, received from a credible and proven shingle manufacturer, is provided for the general public;
__________
TECHNICAL BULLETIN – HURRICANE EXPOSURE
The process of detecting and evaluating damage from hurricane exposure is subjective at best, and often everyone involved may offer a different assessment.
Damage can range from wind uplift, shingle loss, broken sealant bonds, granule loss, external sources, and may not be readily apparent.
However, even small amounts of damage can harm the surfacing material, leading to deterioration of the shingles months or years later.
GRANULE LOSS
Regarding damage to the embedded granule surfacing in the asphalt top coating, hurricane wind exposure can result in varying degrees of granule loss.
Hurricane wind exposure loosens the granules, potentially allowing the granules to separate from the coating layer and wash off the roof.
Without the granule surfacing, the asphalt top coating is exposed to ultraviolet radiation from ordinary sunlight and will eventually deteriorate, exposing the fiberglass substrate and creating a leak potential.
If a shingle indicates outward damage, the underlying components may be compromised and affected to some degree.
The extent of granule loss resulting from hurricane exposure is influenced by, but not limited to, the following:
1. Age of the product.
2. Force and duration of winds and wind driven rain.
3. Type and amount of wind driven debris.
4. Orientation and slope of the deck in relation to winds.
5. Amount of foot traffic.
BROKEN SEALANT BONDS
When sealant bonds are broken due to hurricane winds, it is possible, but not likely, for shingles to reseal.
The subsequent strength of resealing, if any, would not be as strong as the initial thermal bond and would be contingent on, but not limited to, the following:
1. Age of the product.
2. Time of year and amount of exposure to ambient temperatures.
3. Length of time before shingles are exposed to subsequent high wind events.
4. Orientation and slope of deck.
5. Stress and strain on the shingles due to exposure to sustained high winds and/or deck movement.
6. Number, placement, type, and length of fasteners.
7. Contamination to the sealant bonds by dirt, debris, or other foreign substance.
8. Condition of the underlying deck or underlying shingles if a roof over.
In accordance with the terms of the limited warranty, there is no coverage for damage caused by hurricanes.
Shingles in hurricane areas will continue to carry the limited warranty for manufacturing defects and remaining limited wind warranty.
Any damage relating to conditions caused by a hurricane, including granule loss, breach of the seals, nail tears and other structural damage, will not be covered by the limited warranty or limited wind warranty at any time.
Large premiums + large deductibles + large depreciation factors + untrue loss values + irresponsible and life endangering claim loss damage assessment conduct = Minimal claim loss payouts, and Grrrreat!!! 2003, 2004, 2005 \”Loss ratio\” profits…
Too bad for some insurers, agents, and adjusters, that a thing called \’Market Conduct Examinations\’, periodically performed by insurance regulatory market conduct examination professionals, and others, is not going to kind to them, or to their market investment support…
Think about that the next time you see a ad from an insurer that wants you to trust them with your family\’s welfare, and your money.
State Farm, along with numerous other High Profile companies, and some obscure companies, contracts for additional workers to service their policyholders in a time of catastrophe. These companies labeled, Independent adjusting firms, with names such as Pilot, Worley, Renfro, Eberl, and others provide trained licensed professional workers that are compensated based upon how much damage they observe and pay for. In short the larger the check paid to the insured the MORE money paid to the individual adjuster and his firm. Now, I ask you what incentives are there to short pay a policyholder.
I admit mistakes are always made that’s why re-inspection is a part of the process.
But, speaking as one of those lowly independent adjusters, whose been doing this for 10+ years, I find where some of the newbie adjuster just make mistakes as newbie Lawyers do. In that case supplemental payments are made.
I just worked Katrina for State farm, and worked over 200 claims. I did not have one of my claims turned back from payment by State Farm. Lastly, I agree and have PAID for NUMEROUS times through State Farm, wind damage to shingles that can’t reseal or roofs that can’t be repaired because of the opposite. Sometimes shingles blown away and the rest are welded together making repairs not feasible.
What I have personally have found to work in dealing with any problem that may crop up is determination and understanding and low tones, not loud rhetoric.
The people in this business would rather pay in every case if they can find coverage, rather than fight a flawed position.
At the end of the day insurances workers just want to get on with their life and not have pent up passion towards any individual policy holder. But they are human just like lawyers working for someone else’s benefit. Don’t bring their passion into pay.
I don\’t see how these \”independent\” adjusters would get paid MORE by the amount of damage they claim. Think about it….wouldn\’t that open up the adjustors to \”overevaluate\” the damage to get more money. I would highly doubt that this is how they get paid.
Obviously, there are checks and balances. That’s why photographic evidence is standard in this industry. There are numerous more, plus why would someone risk there licenses, reputation and future livelihood for any single claim.
J your ignorance of the facts isn’t justified by assumed greed in human nature.
Take it to the bank experienced independent adjusters look for coverage, and have to give the bad news when damage falls outside the perils in the insuring contract agreement.
A ex-contractor, turned Pilot Claim Adjuster, stated that the dollar amount of a homeowner claim did not matter to him, since he was paid a DAILY rate.
Too, the incentive to under-assess or ignore damage may be fueled by the need to keep the weekly 1,500.00-$2,000.00 paycheck coming in…
Contractors turned adjusters, who know industry definitions for shingle damage as a contractor, should not change or ignore those definitions when they start to inspect property damages for insurance companies, or their claim serving vendors.
(Isn\’t that a Federal offence?)
And Allstate & State Farm ARE blatantly denying common wind damage to shingle roofing systems in the Beaumont Texas, and surrounding, area.
I meet with adjusters quite often, on site (since 1992), and can testify to those current FACTS.
P.S. Because of an insurance related project, I stopped in and spoke with a supplier about some needed materials. A conversation came up about her insurer – Allstate.
She said, and I quote; \”The adjuster got out of his truck, and the very first thing he said, before hello, or anything, was, \’You aren\’t getting a new roof\’ \”
What kind of objective good faith act
was that?
Certain insurers make contingent profits by keeping money owed claimants, via adjusters who have sold-out their integrity, (to protect their neighbors from predators), for profit…
If there was a conspiracy to defraud the insured through their adjusters, it would only take ONE disgruntle ex-employee or contract employee to blow the whistle on the INDUSTRY. This type of planned denial does not exist. AGAIN, there are always inept non caring workers in all fields, just look at our school boards, but to say there is a plan to defraud the public is too far fetched for imagination.
The policy pays for damage; one slope of a roof can be damaged and repaired just like a car can be repaired if a fender gets a dent. No one scrapes a car because of a scratch. If we went on that basis no one could afford insurance.
Your point, “the adjusters on day rate get paid regardless if they pay the insured or not”
Again, most adjusters I have met would rather cut a check then write a letter detailing out why there isn’t coverage. The fact is, most companies would rather pay the claim and get down the road than drag it out. By the way, I was also a contractor before I retired.
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Sun Man,
Thank you, My Bad, Oh Yes, Thanks for catching this miss, Cynthia McWhinny deserves to be on this list next to those other Wack-Jobs.
Appreciate your help.
Ty,
MattO
4-8-2006
A new twist to State Farm and Allstate\’s hurricane Rita damage UNDER-assessment schemes is to claim that wind debris damage to asphalt / fiberglass roofing system shingles, is not really damage they insure for.
They now claim that when wind borne debris (sand, pebbles, twigs, vegetation, dirt, neighbor\’s roof granules, etc.) strips off shingles granular surface component, sometimes even down to the fiberglass matting, that that abrasive striping of the shingle…is not (wink-wink) reallllyy shingle damage.
Another (untrue) claim they both are spreading, (Allstate through Pilot Claim Service adjusters), in and around the Beaumont Texas region, and in Florida, is that the tar sealant bond that keeps one shingle attached to the one below it, is also not (wink-wink) reallllyy shingle damage when wind lift breaks the bond.
(Only naive, uneducated and tired policyholders believe, or \”accept\” that damaged property assessment double-speak nonsense…)
As wind loads break apart a shingle\’s (factory engineered and wind warrantied) tar sealant bond, and leaves behind debris under the shingles, the heat from the sun commonly causes the debris to become attached to the tar and commonly prohibits the shingles from (thermally) sealing back together…an obvious danger to the home / business structure, and to the future welfare of the inhabitants of the structure…especially along the hurricane prone Gulf Coast.
To help Allstate / Pilot Claim Service and State Farm (permanently?) correct their shingle wind damage assessment errors, and voluntarily reopen untold thousands of claims incorrectly assessed, and to help the general public receive a reasonable shingle roofing system wind damage assessment review from insurance adjusters, the following fresh technical information, received from a credible and proven shingle manufacturer, is provided for the general public;
__________
TECHNICAL BULLETIN – HURRICANE EXPOSURE
The process of detecting and evaluating damage from hurricane exposure is subjective at best, and often everyone involved may offer a different assessment.
Damage can range from wind uplift, shingle loss, broken sealant bonds, granule loss, external sources, and may not be readily apparent.
However, even small amounts of damage can harm the surfacing material, leading to deterioration of the shingles months or years later.
GRANULE LOSS
Regarding damage to the embedded granule surfacing in the asphalt top coating, hurricane wind exposure can result in varying degrees of granule loss.
Hurricane wind exposure loosens the granules, potentially allowing the granules to separate from the coating layer and wash off the roof.
Without the granule surfacing, the asphalt top coating is exposed to ultraviolet radiation from ordinary sunlight and will eventually deteriorate, exposing the fiberglass substrate and creating a leak potential.
If a shingle indicates outward damage, the underlying components may be compromised and affected to some degree.
The extent of granule loss resulting from hurricane exposure is influenced by, but not limited to, the following:
1. Age of the product.
2. Force and duration of winds and wind driven rain.
3. Type and amount of wind driven debris.
4. Orientation and slope of the deck in relation to winds.
5. Amount of foot traffic.
BROKEN SEALANT BONDS
When sealant bonds are broken due to hurricane winds, it is possible, but not likely, for shingles to reseal.
The subsequent strength of resealing, if any, would not be as strong as the initial thermal bond and would be contingent on, but not limited to, the following:
1. Age of the product.
2. Time of year and amount of exposure to ambient temperatures.
3. Length of time before shingles are exposed to subsequent high wind events.
4. Orientation and slope of deck.
5. Stress and strain on the shingles due to exposure to sustained high winds and/or deck movement.
6. Number, placement, type, and length of fasteners.
7. Contamination to the sealant bonds by dirt, debris, or other foreign substance.
8. Condition of the underlying deck or underlying shingles if a roof over.
In accordance with the terms of the limited warranty, there is no coverage for damage caused by hurricanes.
Shingles in hurricane areas will continue to carry the limited warranty for manufacturing defects and remaining limited wind warranty.
Any damage relating to conditions caused by a hurricane, including granule loss, breach of the seals, nail tears and other structural damage, will not be covered by the limited warranty or limited wind warranty at any time.
TB-420 2/24/06
ELK P.O. Box 500 Ennis, TX. 75120
Toll Free – 1-866-355-8324 http://www.elkcorp.com
__________
Large premiums + large deductibles + large depreciation factors + untrue loss values + irresponsible and life endangering claim loss damage assessment conduct = Minimal claim loss payouts, and Grrrreat!!! 2003, 2004, 2005 \”Loss ratio\” profits…
Too bad for some insurers, agents, and adjusters, that a thing called \’Market Conduct Examinations\’, periodically performed by insurance regulatory market conduct examination professionals, and others, is not going to kind to them, or to their market investment support…
Think about that the next time you see a ad from an insurer that wants you to trust them with your family\’s welfare, and your money.
Make sure they do not (cleverly) steal either…
rogerpoegc@yahoo.com
You forgot at least one sub-group – (Cynthia McKinney)
You forgot at least one sub-group – (Cynthia McKinney)
You forgot at least one sub-group – (Cynthia McKinney)
State Farm, along with numerous other High Profile companies, and some obscure companies, contracts for additional workers to service their policyholders in a time of catastrophe. These companies labeled, Independent adjusting firms, with names such as Pilot, Worley, Renfro, Eberl, and others provide trained licensed professional workers that are compensated based upon how much damage they observe and pay for. In short the larger the check paid to the insured the MORE money paid to the individual adjuster and his firm. Now, I ask you what incentives are there to short pay a policyholder.
I admit mistakes are always made that’s why re-inspection is a part of the process.
But, speaking as one of those lowly independent adjusters, whose been doing this for 10+ years, I find where some of the newbie adjuster just make mistakes as newbie Lawyers do. In that case supplemental payments are made.
I just worked Katrina for State farm, and worked over 200 claims. I did not have one of my claims turned back from payment by State Farm. Lastly, I agree and have PAID for NUMEROUS times through State Farm, wind damage to shingles that can’t reseal or roofs that can’t be repaired because of the opposite. Sometimes shingles blown away and the rest are welded together making repairs not feasible.
What I have personally have found to work in dealing with any problem that may crop up is determination and understanding and low tones, not loud rhetoric.
The people in this business would rather pay in every case if they can find coverage, rather than fight a flawed position.
At the end of the day insurances workers just want to get on with their life and not have pent up passion towards any individual policy holder. But they are human just like lawyers working for someone else’s benefit. Don’t bring their passion into pay.
I don\’t see how these \”independent\” adjusters would get paid MORE by the amount of damage they claim. Think about it….wouldn\’t that open up the adjustors to \”overevaluate\” the damage to get more money. I would highly doubt that this is how they get paid.
Obviously, there are checks and balances. That’s why photographic evidence is standard in this industry. There are numerous more, plus why would someone risk there licenses, reputation and future livelihood for any single claim.
J your ignorance of the facts isn’t justified by assumed greed in human nature.
Take it to the bank experienced independent adjusters look for coverage, and have to give the bad news when damage falls outside the perils in the insuring contract agreement.
Pat,
A ex-contractor, turned Pilot Claim Adjuster, stated that the dollar amount of a homeowner claim did not matter to him, since he was paid a DAILY rate.
Too, the incentive to under-assess or ignore damage may be fueled by the need to keep the weekly 1,500.00-$2,000.00 paycheck coming in…
Contractors turned adjusters, who know industry definitions for shingle damage as a contractor, should not change or ignore those definitions when they start to inspect property damages for insurance companies, or their claim serving vendors.
(Isn\’t that a Federal offence?)
And Allstate & State Farm ARE blatantly denying common wind damage to shingle roofing systems in the Beaumont Texas, and surrounding, area.
I meet with adjusters quite often, on site (since 1992), and can testify to those current FACTS.
rogerpoegc@yahoo.com
P.S. Because of an insurance related project, I stopped in and spoke with a supplier about some needed materials. A conversation came up about her insurer – Allstate.
She said, and I quote; \”The adjuster got out of his truck, and the very first thing he said, before hello, or anything, was, \’You aren\’t getting a new roof\’ \”
What kind of objective good faith act
was that?
Certain insurers make contingent profits by keeping money owed claimants, via adjusters who have sold-out their integrity, (to protect their neighbors from predators), for profit…
If there was a conspiracy to defraud the insured through their adjusters, it would only take ONE disgruntle ex-employee or contract employee to blow the whistle on the INDUSTRY. This type of planned denial does not exist. AGAIN, there are always inept non caring workers in all fields, just look at our school boards, but to say there is a plan to defraud the public is too far fetched for imagination.
The policy pays for damage; one slope of a roof can be damaged and repaired just like a car can be repaired if a fender gets a dent. No one scrapes a car because of a scratch. If we went on that basis no one could afford insurance.
Your point, “the adjusters on day rate get paid regardless if they pay the insured or not”
Again, most adjusters I have met would rather cut a check then write a letter detailing out why there isn’t coverage. The fact is, most companies would rather pay the claim and get down the road than drag it out. By the way, I was also a contractor before I retired.