The Patriot act followed by 4 years of clueless Democratic “leadership” in the House and Senate are why we need a sustainable 3rd party. Democrats are fine until they’re in power as are Republicans. When either party controls the House, Senate and Presidency we all lose.
@Mr Solvent
You said, “There is clear correlation between income and credit. Higher income generally yields higher credit scores and I can show you studies upon studies that prove this.
Yet with this documented fact people earning less money filed less claims according to this study. Statistics are manipulated to give the desired result. As such we have “powerful predictors” such as credit.”
First, you seem unable to back up your “documented facts.”
Words are also manipulated to “give the desired results.” Making broad sweeping statements/condemnations of things without proof is verbal manipulation.
I am still waiting to review your “studies”
Please let’s us all know where one can see them.
Since you know the majority of these “studies” are proprietary, you’re just playing a tool for the industry. That said, have a look at the State of Missouri’s report here:
@Mr Solvent
I knew you would pull out that 6 year old and widely discredited study.
See here for one of many negative critiques: http://www.ask-epic.com/Publications/A%20Critique.pdf
I know I will never change your mind, as you have decided CBIS are evil, discriminate unfairly or whatever.
However, that is just your opinion, and there are other opinions.
And you are correct that most of the data is locked up in proprietary rate plans.
Having had the experience of building several CBIS based P&C personal lines rate plans I will add my opinion based on first hand knowledge of the relationship of CBIS to loss costs. Rock solid. The first time I was able to see the data even I was shocked at the correlation.
No facts here, just my experience and opinion.
Sue
Working in this industry for years and years in addition using credit scoring in auto insurance as my thesis for my MBA, I’ve looked at a lot of these “studies.”
Again, there’s no doubting the correlation between credit, DTAC ratio, and claims. There is no doubt that credit scores and DTAC ratios vary wildly based on income, age, and even location. Location is already a predictor of future loss. So is age and driving record as well as previous claims.
Interesting link. Thanks. One study that Progessive conducted (I believe it was back in 1996/1997) showed that credit score had little variance by zip code however I am unsure how many zip codes were compared. Plus this study raised the ethnicity issues that Progressive’s may have missed or avoided. Still the fact remains, if poorer credit scores reflect higher losses, do we use the data or ignore it. It does seem that in states where credit is used, the few “non credit” carriers seem to have a pricing disadvantage.
Is the price of their toys.
Ever think that a wealthy person with two + cars, home, boat, ATV, motorcycle, second home would have more EXPOSURE and thereby more claims than a person with just a modest house and one older car? But it isn’t so, even then.
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The Patriot act followed by 4 years of clueless Democratic “leadership” in the House and Senate are why we need a sustainable 3rd party. Democrats are fine until they’re in power as are Republicans. When either party controls the House, Senate and Presidency we all lose.
@Mr Solvent
You said, “There is clear correlation between income and credit. Higher income generally yields higher credit scores and I can show you studies upon studies that prove this.
Yet with this documented fact people earning less money filed less claims according to this study. Statistics are manipulated to give the desired result. As such we have “powerful predictors” such as credit.”
First, you seem unable to back up your “documented facts.”
Words are also manipulated to “give the desired results.” Making broad sweeping statements/condemnations of things without proof is verbal manipulation.
I am still waiting to review your “studies”
Please let’s us all know where one can see them.
Thanks.
Sue
Agreed
No pit bull. I hate dogs, but thanks for the compliment. ;-)
Sue,
Since you know the majority of these “studies” are proprietary, you’re just playing a tool for the industry. That said, have a look at the State of Missouri’s report here:
http://insurance.mo.gov/reports/credscore.pdf
It’s often the layperson’s understanding (or the lack thereof) of statistics that is manipulated.
“The average driver who switched to our company saved an average of $483”.
—-> Our company offers lower rates. Right?
“On average, women make $.78 for every dollar a man makes.”
—-> There must be $.22 of gender pay discrimination. Right?
@Mr Solvent
I knew you would pull out that 6 year old and widely discredited study.
See here for one of many negative critiques: http://www.ask-epic.com/Publications/A%20Critique.pdf
I know I will never change your mind, as you have decided CBIS are evil, discriminate unfairly or whatever.
However, that is just your opinion, and there are other opinions.
And you are correct that most of the data is locked up in proprietary rate plans.
Having had the experience of building several CBIS based P&C personal lines rate plans I will add my opinion based on first hand knowledge of the relationship of CBIS to loss costs. Rock solid. The first time I was able to see the data even I was shocked at the correlation.
No facts here, just my experience and opinion.
Sue
Working in this industry for years and years in addition using credit scoring in auto insurance as my thesis for my MBA, I’ve looked at a lot of these “studies.”
Again, there’s no doubting the correlation between credit, DTAC ratio, and claims. There is no doubt that credit scores and DTAC ratios vary wildly based on income, age, and even location. Location is already a predictor of future loss. So is age and driving record as well as previous claims.
Interesting link. Thanks. One study that Progessive conducted (I believe it was back in 1996/1997) showed that credit score had little variance by zip code however I am unsure how many zip codes were compared. Plus this study raised the ethnicity issues that Progressive’s may have missed or avoided. Still the fact remains, if poorer credit scores reflect higher losses, do we use the data or ignore it. It does seem that in states where credit is used, the few “non credit” carriers seem to have a pricing disadvantage.
Is the price of their toys.
Ever think that a wealthy person with two + cars, home, boat, ATV, motorcycle, second home would have more EXPOSURE and thereby more claims than a person with just a modest house and one older car? But it isn’t so, even then.