Your “Facts” are obviously very old so please don’t insult me. I am on a one woman crusade to expose these frauds. Their bank business is guaranteed cost National Accounts. I am currently at Liberty which makes my experience and “opinion” a little more accurate than yours. We have also taken to writing foundry’s at GC as well as nursing care for violent patients and bankrupt truckers.
Ted Kelly’s previous results were a result of “right place, right time”. His greed has driven him to pressure the underwriters to expand their appetite and make unwise decisions in order to keep their jobs. He is totally out of touch. He gets his info from his inner circle of yes men who tell him what he wants to hear. (See Sandy Weill)
And you’re also writing vitamin manufacturers (rated as food prods) on occurrence forms with unlimited defense while the market writes them on claims-made, defense inside. Not only are they underpriced, the coverage is dangerously broad. No ephedra, ma huang or tryptophan exclusion. Very scary!
First of all, my last date of employment at Liberty was in the last 3 months so I wouldn’t call my positions out of date. Especially since I still have a large network of people I still talk to there. You say that “we” have also taken and that you are currently there, so I am going to assume that you are an employee, and if you are so enraged by the practices my question to you would be why are you still there? For someone who is such a “Critic,” I would think that you’d leave before making a bad underwriting decision such as writing bankrupt truckers, violent patients, or banks.
Never once while I was there was I pressured to quote an account that I thought would lose money. Nor did I ever pressure any of my underwriters to quote something that they didn’t think would make money.
Finally let’s revisit the issue on classes of business:
Banks – again, you have yet to answer what lines they are writing…WC at a bank not an issue, same with auto, gl, or property. The concerns at a bank would be E&O and D&O which is why Liberty created the LIU facility – because they have the specialized knowledge to write those lines, not the people in National Markets.
You have now changed Automotive SICs, to transportation which is a completely different segment. And unfortunately this is a class that I know they do write. Speaking with people that are now in the Middle Market Division, there are numerous underwriters looking at Transportation accounts that don’t know what they are doing. Prior to the reforming of the company that was a specialized SIC that was written primarily out of Atlanta and in Business Markets – it was not company wide. So on this issue, I agree with your point; however give it sometime and the learning curve will catch up. Just remember 2-3 years ago they struggled with writing construction accounts too.
Foundries on a GC basis are not a problem as long as they are priced right and within the actuarial departments projections. I know there is a segment in Agency Markets that writes nothing but these things.
Nursing Care, you’re going to need more specifics. Talking home healthcare? Hospitals? Institutions? Rehab facilities? etc.
As for the house of cards lady, well you better find the door else they’re going to collapse on you.
I have been humbled by the sharing of the clearly expressed and accurate data from The Oracle in this thread. I willingly make obeisance to a source most well placed and informed. That being said, I request The Oracle again favor us with thoughts. Opining on the start-up Valiant Insurance (wholly owned by Ariel) and further opining on the divesting of Farmers by Zurich would be welcome. I wait with baited breath for comments…hey guys, I had a mint…
“The concerns at a bank would be E&O and D&O which is why Liberty created the LIU facility – because they have the specialized knowledge to write those lines”
LIU….specialized underwriters? HA! More like “lets throw a dart to determine just how badly we’re going to undercut the incumbent and then we’ll throw a full defense outside. To top it all off, we’ll complain that Lexington is undercutting the market so nobody notices we’re doing the exact same thing”
I love it. Liberty is not fooling anyone. WC, GL for banks doesn’t concern the “Status Quo” contributor. Payroll reductions (RP’s) and layoffs (increased WC claims) are a result, not to mention an inability to post collateral or provide collateral for other National Accounts. They are DOOMED.
I had an Order of the Chair from the Worker’s Compensation board ordering that I should receive massage for an injury received from my work.. Liberty Mutual, after harassing my massage therapist every time, did eventually pay them after months.
When my orthopedic doctor recommended another round of massages, they refused to pay. Through channels, my massage therapist and Liberty Mutual received AN ORDER OF THE CHAIR from the Worker’s Compensation board. It indicated that the therapist was to give me a certain number of massages and Liberty Mutual would have to pay. AND THAT THIS COULD NOT BE DISPUTED!
The massage therapist called Worker’s Comp and was told INDEED she had to perform the massage (which she was glad) and that Liberty Mutual HAD TO PAY and COULD NOT fight the decision.
The therapist performed most of the massages.
Liberty Mutual fought the ORDER. They lost. They fought it again. They lost. Finally they fought it again, and this time I was there.
The judge obviously had no clue about the case. He did not know about the order of the chair. Everything I asked him, he referred to Liberty Mutual’s lawyer to answer.
Liberty Mutual said they WOULD pay for massage by a physical therapist (who in this state get less than 50 hours of massage training) but not by a massage therapist (who has over 1000 hours) of training. I explained that the doctor had ordered massage because 2 years of physical therapy had left in worse condition and unable to work. With the massage, I was able to continue working, though in pain much of the time.
The judge several times said things like “I understand your point, but I cannot help you”.
He ended up, obviously, finding for Liberty Mutual. The amount we are talking about is less than $600 — probably the amount of bonus the person will get for rejecting a claim for someone who will have to now switch jobs because I cannot continue in my current job — thanks to Liberty Mutual.
I just hope that Karma really works and they eventually get to experience what it is like to have someone rob them of their careers because of greed.
Is this what America is all about? I’m ready to move to Europe and to a country that actually takes care of their citizens so that they (the citizens) can be productive members of society.
It is companies like Liberty Mutual that will eventually cause the downfall of America as we all like to think it should be!
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Your “Facts” are obviously very old so please don’t insult me. I am on a one woman crusade to expose these frauds. Their bank business is guaranteed cost National Accounts. I am currently at Liberty which makes my experience and “opinion” a little more accurate than yours. We have also taken to writing foundry’s at GC as well as nursing care for violent patients and bankrupt truckers.
Ted Kelly’s previous results were a result of “right place, right time”. His greed has driven him to pressure the underwriters to expand their appetite and make unwise decisions in order to keep their jobs. He is totally out of touch. He gets his info from his inner circle of yes men who tell him what he wants to hear. (See Sandy Weill)
This is a house of cards about to collapse.
And you’re also writing vitamin manufacturers (rated as food prods) on occurrence forms with unlimited defense while the market writes them on claims-made, defense inside. Not only are they underpriced, the coverage is dangerously broad. No ephedra, ma huang or tryptophan exclusion. Very scary!
First of all, my last date of employment at Liberty was in the last 3 months so I wouldn’t call my positions out of date. Especially since I still have a large network of people I still talk to there. You say that “we” have also taken and that you are currently there, so I am going to assume that you are an employee, and if you are so enraged by the practices my question to you would be why are you still there? For someone who is such a “Critic,” I would think that you’d leave before making a bad underwriting decision such as writing bankrupt truckers, violent patients, or banks.
Never once while I was there was I pressured to quote an account that I thought would lose money. Nor did I ever pressure any of my underwriters to quote something that they didn’t think would make money.
Finally let’s revisit the issue on classes of business:
Banks – again, you have yet to answer what lines they are writing…WC at a bank not an issue, same with auto, gl, or property. The concerns at a bank would be E&O and D&O which is why Liberty created the LIU facility – because they have the specialized knowledge to write those lines, not the people in National Markets.
You have now changed Automotive SICs, to transportation which is a completely different segment. And unfortunately this is a class that I know they do write. Speaking with people that are now in the Middle Market Division, there are numerous underwriters looking at Transportation accounts that don’t know what they are doing. Prior to the reforming of the company that was a specialized SIC that was written primarily out of Atlanta and in Business Markets – it was not company wide. So on this issue, I agree with your point; however give it sometime and the learning curve will catch up. Just remember 2-3 years ago they struggled with writing construction accounts too.
Foundries on a GC basis are not a problem as long as they are priced right and within the actuarial departments projections. I know there is a segment in Agency Markets that writes nothing but these things.
Nursing Care, you’re going to need more specifics. Talking home healthcare? Hospitals? Institutions? Rehab facilities? etc.
As for the house of cards lady, well you better find the door else they’re going to collapse on you.
I have been humbled by the sharing of the clearly expressed and accurate data from The Oracle in this thread. I willingly make obeisance to a source most well placed and informed. That being said, I request The Oracle again favor us with thoughts. Opining on the start-up Valiant Insurance (wholly owned by Ariel) and further opining on the divesting of Farmers by Zurich would be welcome. I wait with baited breath for comments…hey guys, I had a mint…
“The concerns at a bank would be E&O and D&O which is why Liberty created the LIU facility – because they have the specialized knowledge to write those lines”
LIU….specialized underwriters? HA! More like “lets throw a dart to determine just how badly we’re going to undercut the incumbent and then we’ll throw a full defense outside. To top it all off, we’ll complain that Lexington is undercutting the market so nobody notices we’re doing the exact same thing”
I love it. Liberty is not fooling anyone. WC, GL for banks doesn’t concern the “Status Quo” contributor. Payroll reductions (RP’s) and layoffs (increased WC claims) are a result, not to mention an inability to post collateral or provide collateral for other National Accounts. They are DOOMED.
I had an Order of the Chair from the Worker’s Compensation board ordering that I should receive massage for an injury received from my work.. Liberty Mutual, after harassing my massage therapist every time, did eventually pay them after months.
When my orthopedic doctor recommended another round of massages, they refused to pay. Through channels, my massage therapist and Liberty Mutual received AN ORDER OF THE CHAIR from the Worker’s Compensation board. It indicated that the therapist was to give me a certain number of massages and Liberty Mutual would have to pay. AND THAT THIS COULD NOT BE DISPUTED!
The massage therapist called Worker’s Comp and was told INDEED she had to perform the massage (which she was glad) and that Liberty Mutual HAD TO PAY and COULD NOT fight the decision.
The therapist performed most of the massages.
Liberty Mutual fought the ORDER. They lost. They fought it again. They lost. Finally they fought it again, and this time I was there.
The judge obviously had no clue about the case. He did not know about the order of the chair. Everything I asked him, he referred to Liberty Mutual’s lawyer to answer.
Liberty Mutual said they WOULD pay for massage by a physical therapist (who in this state get less than 50 hours of massage training) but not by a massage therapist (who has over 1000 hours) of training. I explained that the doctor had ordered massage because 2 years of physical therapy had left in worse condition and unable to work. With the massage, I was able to continue working, though in pain much of the time.
The judge several times said things like “I understand your point, but I cannot help you”.
He ended up, obviously, finding for Liberty Mutual. The amount we are talking about is less than $600 — probably the amount of bonus the person will get for rejecting a claim for someone who will have to now switch jobs because I cannot continue in my current job — thanks to Liberty Mutual.
I just hope that Karma really works and they eventually get to experience what it is like to have someone rob them of their careers because of greed.
Is this what America is all about? I’m ready to move to Europe and to a country that actually takes care of their citizens so that they (the citizens) can be productive members of society.
It is companies like Liberty Mutual that will eventually cause the downfall of America as we all like to think it should be!