AZUW, I have no doubt the governor’s plan will be enacted in some way shape or form so let\’s see if it saves money or creates an enormous out of control bureaucracy. If it saves money I\’m all for it, but I\’m extremely skeptical. And it\’s not easy to maintain a job and provide health insurance for yourself, your family and the uninsured. It is easy to be unemployed and uninsured and then get a freebie from the Gov. That\’s easy! It\’s not that we don\’t care but enough is enough. It goes back to the incentive idea, what incentive do the unemployed/uninsured have to get a job and get insurance. If we keep providing it for them there\’s none.
I agree with your statements AZUM. Scott prefers to sit in his cubicle and pontificate with his blinders on obviously unaware of the reality that surrounds him. Something needs to be done to reverse and/or correct the mess we are in (due to the free market).
I provide for a family of four. We don\’t have life insurance because I can\’t afford it. Want to help me out with that Bob? What\’s the cost to society if I die and my kids become wards of the State? Following your logic isn\’t this your problem too?
With all the complaints about a failing free market, why not let the pendulum swing the other way and provide everything through govt subsidies. That way we can spend less in the free market and have absolutely no say in how high our taxes go to provide for the masses. With enough people paying all these wonderful taxes, we should be very well taken care of! Or at least the politicians will be.
Oh, for God\’s sake \’free market\’, noboby is saying we should change the United States to socialist nation. Let\’s have a rational, grown up conversation. The free market is obviously not working on health care. I know, I know, the free market can walk your dog, mow your lawn, and give you a warm, fuzzy feeling at night. But, here\’s the deal…we all need health insurance. And if the supply and demand curves cross at a price where 40MM people can\’t afford it, there\’s a problem. It\’s not like this is going out and buying a car. Not everyone gets to drive a Mercedez, not everyone gets to live in a 5,000 ft2 house, and not everyone gets to take a vacation every year, but health care is NOT THE SAME. For way too long, we\’ve all been about looking out for #1. Whether you want to belive it or not, we all live here together and everything and everyone is affected by everyone else. I\’m assuming you hate welfare. And that\’s fine, but the numbers show that crime rates and costs associated with healthcare are lower in areas with comprehensive welfare programs. And I don\’t care how much money you have, it\’s all for naught if someone car jacks you and blows you away. Providing BASIC services for the whole of our population may cost some money in the short run, but the benefits in the large run are huge. We have to start somewhere. The health carriers can still share in the premium and the costs of health care, they may just need a little help for the government, and yes, that means you and me. You may not like it, but again, you\’re going to pay one way or the other, so you might as well pay up front when maybe we can save some on the back end.
AZUW lets state a few facts regarding gov\’t responsibility to its citizens. You mentioned privatizing police forces. The gov\’t is here to protect and defend the citizens, however aren\’t there gated communities with there own police force? But why? Secondly we must have regulations and standards to set a somewhat even palying field for all involved. Ie. SEC EPA and of course the FDA etal. 40 million people have chosen not to purchase health insurance. How many of them own ipods and cell phones and cable tv and …. I could go on and on. Whether you want to admit it or not, that doctor or drug that saves your life has a cost attached to it. Please name me one business the government is in that competes with the private sector and delivers a better product, service or value than the private sector.
Ah, glad I stuck a nerve AZUW! I don\’t disagree with you, just frustrated about the cost of the delivery system! I don\’t hate welfare for the ones that deserve it, just the abuses it takes, same as every other social system we have. Seems like no one is willing to follow the intent/spirit of the systems and say \”no\” once in awhile. Any plausable solutions you care to share?
Milt (my condolences to your family, albeit belated),
Fantastic exaggeration. So, the 40MM people without health insurance made a choice not to have health insurance? How do you know that? I think you\’re right, health care should be the first thing someone buys, and then they can worry about food and shelter after that. So, then I guess the security guards at those gated communities are better trained than police offices because private industry does a better job. Who is your security guard, Chuck Norris?
I know it\’s a popular belief, but welfare isn\’t as abused as everyone thinks it is. I wish I could remeber the number, by very few people stay on welfare longer than 2 years. Now, once you hit that mark, you\’re usually on it for a very long time, but that the excpetion, not the rule. The problem with any program that helps many is that its easy to abuse. You could make welfare very difficult to abuse, but then many people that really need it, wouldn\’t be able to be helped. I know it\’s not a popular view, but look, we don\’t pay enough in taxes, and have way to much stuff here. I think the top tax rate when Eisenhower was president was like 91%. I\’m not suggesting we gouge the rich like that, but the money has to come from somewhere. We\’re all going to have to pay more as much as it sucks.
Ahhh, Milton. It is pointless to argue about whether IU is \”better\” than ND or not. IU has better physics & chemistry depts, ND has better English and Theology depts. Of course a small selective private school can have students with high SAT scores. Private schools are selective about who they take. What is amazing is that public schools accomplish what they do with an \”adversely selected\” population. To say private schools do \”better\” requires the use of a biased metric. Private industry does better than public-funded university research?? I think not! I have a PhD in physics and taught in universities for 10 years.
And I kind of liked \”pampered spawn of the rich!\” I worked at that one! Just don\’t tell Teddy I said that.
Thanks for your thoughtfulness and civility. Its quite enjoyable ranting with you.
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AZUW, I have no doubt the governor’s plan will be enacted in some way shape or form so let\’s see if it saves money or creates an enormous out of control bureaucracy. If it saves money I\’m all for it, but I\’m extremely skeptical. And it\’s not easy to maintain a job and provide health insurance for yourself, your family and the uninsured. It is easy to be unemployed and uninsured and then get a freebie from the Gov. That\’s easy! It\’s not that we don\’t care but enough is enough. It goes back to the incentive idea, what incentive do the unemployed/uninsured have to get a job and get insurance. If we keep providing it for them there\’s none.
I agree with your statements AZUM. Scott prefers to sit in his cubicle and pontificate with his blinders on obviously unaware of the reality that surrounds him. Something needs to be done to reverse and/or correct the mess we are in (due to the free market).
I provide for a family of four. We don\’t have life insurance because I can\’t afford it. Want to help me out with that Bob? What\’s the cost to society if I die and my kids become wards of the State? Following your logic isn\’t this your problem too?
With all the complaints about a failing free market, why not let the pendulum swing the other way and provide everything through govt subsidies. That way we can spend less in the free market and have absolutely no say in how high our taxes go to provide for the masses. With enough people paying all these wonderful taxes, we should be very well taken care of! Or at least the politicians will be.
Oh, for God\’s sake \’free market\’, noboby is saying we should change the United States to socialist nation. Let\’s have a rational, grown up conversation. The free market is obviously not working on health care. I know, I know, the free market can walk your dog, mow your lawn, and give you a warm, fuzzy feeling at night. But, here\’s the deal…we all need health insurance. And if the supply and demand curves cross at a price where 40MM people can\’t afford it, there\’s a problem. It\’s not like this is going out and buying a car. Not everyone gets to drive a Mercedez, not everyone gets to live in a 5,000 ft2 house, and not everyone gets to take a vacation every year, but health care is NOT THE SAME. For way too long, we\’ve all been about looking out for #1. Whether you want to belive it or not, we all live here together and everything and everyone is affected by everyone else. I\’m assuming you hate welfare. And that\’s fine, but the numbers show that crime rates and costs associated with healthcare are lower in areas with comprehensive welfare programs. And I don\’t care how much money you have, it\’s all for naught if someone car jacks you and blows you away. Providing BASIC services for the whole of our population may cost some money in the short run, but the benefits in the large run are huge. We have to start somewhere. The health carriers can still share in the premium and the costs of health care, they may just need a little help for the government, and yes, that means you and me. You may not like it, but again, you\’re going to pay one way or the other, so you might as well pay up front when maybe we can save some on the back end.
AZUW lets state a few facts regarding gov\’t responsibility to its citizens. You mentioned privatizing police forces. The gov\’t is here to protect and defend the citizens, however aren\’t there gated communities with there own police force? But why? Secondly we must have regulations and standards to set a somewhat even palying field for all involved. Ie. SEC EPA and of course the FDA etal. 40 million people have chosen not to purchase health insurance. How many of them own ipods and cell phones and cable tv and …. I could go on and on. Whether you want to admit it or not, that doctor or drug that saves your life has a cost attached to it. Please name me one business the government is in that competes with the private sector and delivers a better product, service or value than the private sector.
Ah, glad I stuck a nerve AZUW! I don\’t disagree with you, just frustrated about the cost of the delivery system! I don\’t hate welfare for the ones that deserve it, just the abuses it takes, same as every other social system we have. Seems like no one is willing to follow the intent/spirit of the systems and say \”no\” once in awhile. Any plausable solutions you care to share?
Milt (my condolences to your family, albeit belated),
Fantastic exaggeration. So, the 40MM people without health insurance made a choice not to have health insurance? How do you know that? I think you\’re right, health care should be the first thing someone buys, and then they can worry about food and shelter after that. So, then I guess the security guards at those gated communities are better trained than police offices because private industry does a better job. Who is your security guard, Chuck Norris?
Free Market,
I know it\’s a popular belief, but welfare isn\’t as abused as everyone thinks it is. I wish I could remeber the number, by very few people stay on welfare longer than 2 years. Now, once you hit that mark, you\’re usually on it for a very long time, but that the excpetion, not the rule. The problem with any program that helps many is that its easy to abuse. You could make welfare very difficult to abuse, but then many people that really need it, wouldn\’t be able to be helped. I know it\’s not a popular view, but look, we don\’t pay enough in taxes, and have way to much stuff here. I think the top tax rate when Eisenhower was president was like 91%. I\’m not suggesting we gouge the rich like that, but the money has to come from somewhere. We\’re all going to have to pay more as much as it sucks.
Ahhh, Milton. It is pointless to argue about whether IU is \”better\” than ND or not. IU has better physics & chemistry depts, ND has better English and Theology depts. Of course a small selective private school can have students with high SAT scores. Private schools are selective about who they take. What is amazing is that public schools accomplish what they do with an \”adversely selected\” population. To say private schools do \”better\” requires the use of a biased metric. Private industry does better than public-funded university research?? I think not! I have a PhD in physics and taught in universities for 10 years.
And I kind of liked \”pampered spawn of the rich!\” I worked at that one! Just don\’t tell Teddy I said that.
Thanks for your thoughtfulness and civility. Its quite enjoyable ranting with you.