Well, Roger Poe, the roofing contractor is at it again with his innuendoes and other half truths about roofing shingle deterioration that results from a large number of non-storm related which he conveniently selectively omits.
His attempt to quote Elk Roofing Company’s statement of explanations as to why certain causes of shingle deterioration are NOT covered under their “limited warranty” statements is a “twisting” of the truth as to the real causes of “granular loss”.
Never once does Roger Poe tell the reader of this forum that the most common cause of granular loss is the result of POOR OR INADEQUATE attic ventilation. Folks, check it out yourselves. Just do your research on web-sites of “ventilation” materials manufacturers and, for a second opionion, other roofing manufacturers for their learned comments, and you will come away with a better understanding as to why property insurance companies deny roofing claims for “ordinary wear and tear”, as this condition predates the storm activities. The “build-up” of attic heat literally “bakes” the underside of the roofing shingles causing the embedded tar in the shingles to dry out, allowing the “seal-down” sealant to break its bond, and the granular coating to also break its bond and wash off by normal rainfall.
Also, fiberglas/asphalt composition roofing shingles are more susceptible to deterioration from high humidity and huge amounts of rainfall in the southern states than the drier areas of the country. To see this in action, just look at this type of roofing where large shadetree branches grow over the front and back slopes of dwelling roofs. The sun never shines on the roofing long enough to dry out the shingles before the next rain. These water logged shingles literally “rot” from constant moisture. Moss growths are also found to form on wet shingles.
I realize this post is indirectly off point from the State Farm/Dickie Scruggs battle, but it is a rebuttal of strong MISINFORMATION posted by Roger Poe.
And YES, I’m a defender of the Property Insurance Industry because, as one poster previously stated, not all claims are payable because they are not “insurable” events, otherwise no one could pay the premium cost for unlimited protection, and we all would be without insurance in time of help (not profit).
I’m glad that the whistleblowers in Louisiana are doing such a wonderful job. A friend of mine is keeping me updated with details and finds that he discovers that brings new flavor to the decimation of the current insurance frauds. I’m glad that people are doing something about the crooks that survive among the good people of the nation. What makes me the most happy is that up north here in Pennsylvania I’ve began telling all sorts of people including some of my family who are also lawyers which practice in Philadelphia, every bit of information I can from my friend down south. Everything that I hear to bring these crooks down I throw around to the folks up here hoping that they tell their friends and so on and so forth. I sincerely feel that in the near future after all the congressional hearings and all the ******** that there might be a federal insurance reform. Our program today really isn’t so bad however the crooks who run these business really are hurting innocent people who elect to purchase insurance from the “little guy”. I’m in full support with Scruggs on this one and State Farm, yall better just bow down and kiss yer asses goodbye… If our government don’t see that you cheated the thousands of people, well God will. What are you going to say to him when confronted? Goodluck to those pursuing redemption and god bless.
Has the industry not done it to themselves. When I started back in the dark ages, there were many standard fire policies written. There were many HO-1 and HO-2 policies written. Carpet was ACV. Many roof provisions were ACV. Fences were not coevred for wind. Awnings and screens were not covered for wind. Falling objects were just that, not wind blown tree limbs. And to be competetive, the standards for HO-3 and HO-5 were lowered as well as premiums. Underwriting is limited these days to loss history. Companies appear to be subscribing to the Warren Buffet philosphy; “Take in enough premium to finance your companies and don’t worry about the loss ratio unless it exceeds 110%.”
So sad all lies Comment:
many (uninformed) people’s idea of insurance is “I have insurance for something will if you have State Farm you will be lie to over and over this is state farm history.
The Insurance Industry has 0 loyalty to the policyholders. They screw you and offer a guarantee of Annual Rate Increases with more exclusions. You can Call Mr Rust, Like I did Over A year ago. ” IF THOU CAN BELIVE< ALL THINGS BECOME POSSIBLE TO HIM THAT BELIVETH. MR Rust out west we belive in the good guys we make phone calls when someone dose us wrong. I call your office of over a year, 2/3 time a day. All I want to do was tell you the way your people play with my life, to no a vail. May be if you would have this compay would not be in so deep.
Posted By: Bill
Comment:
Oh yes, if it’s on a website it’s the gospel truth! Give me a break!
mR bILL THE WEB HAS ALL COURT FILES WHY TO YOU THINK GONZALES WANT,S TO STOP ALL THE INF.SAY IT,S FINGER THE REAL BAD GUYS ! WE FIND THEM BUT NO ONE WILL TAKE THEM ON OH BUT WANT MR HOOD- I GUESS GONZALES FOR –GET MR HOOD IN ALL THE M-S YOU CAN NOT STOP PEOPLE OUT SIDE THE WEB MR GONZALES SO HOW ABOUT GOING ON YOU PALYDAY!!! FOR THE PUZZLE IS HOW CAN YOU DO YOUR JOB gONZALES— MR RUST IS YOUR FRIEND. nOT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SO HARM BY THIS FOR-OVER A YEAR – I CALL FOR HELP TO YOUR OFFICE BIG JOKE. I WAS TELL YOU DO NOT DEAL WITH INS FRAUD OF THIS KIND IN ALL OF MY CALLING THAT I MAKE FOR OVER A YEAR 3/4 TIME A DAY NO ONE DEALS WITH THIS KIND OF FRAUD WHY IS THAT I ASK PUT THE PUZ. OPEN YOUR EYES COUNTRY.
Posted By: Mr. Obvious
Comment:
State Farm denied claims. Big Whoop. Every insurance company denies claims. Insurance companies have a responsibility to their policyholders and/or shareholders dEAR mR OBVIOUS YOU USED POLICYHOLDERS WOULD THAT BE ?ME. cOULD YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT WHY IT,S OK TO PAY THIS /?? HARD EARN MONEY– OUT TO T-I-S
I happen to work for a company that is well known for finding coverage for our insureds when legally their is none. Our insureds pay a higher premium than our competitors, but they get treated better too.
It appears that many (uninformed) people’s idea of insurance is “I have insurance for something, when something happens, I should be paid” without remembering that they chose the chevy premium, and declined the rolls royce premium.
Hurricane force [74+MPH] winds PLUS 25%+ higher wind gusts and other individual “winds within the wind” commonly create a environment that by its very nature is abrasive to roof coverings and other structural components.
Flying micro-projectiles (dull, sharp, or otherwise) leave their own unique “fingerprints” on surfaces, such as fiberglass shingles, painted surfaces, guttering surfaces, window frames/glass, AC Unit cooling foils, garage doors, fencing finishes, vehicles, etc.
The older the roofing system, the more clear the effects of the wind generated abrasive action.
Forensically these abrasive “fingerprints” are VERY different from heat and moisture damage.
After witnessing at least 12 catastrophes [that I too have witnessed] ones can be certain that Allstate and State Farm know these actual loss claim issues quite well.
In fact, bizarrely, the tar sealant bond damage was recognized in Louisiana after hurricane Katrina, but not in SE Texas after hurricane Rita.
Also, critically high wind detaches a shingle from the one below it by pushing/pulling on the outside ends of the shingle, eventually BREAKING the tar tab bonding material that is designed to create a monolithic wind/weather tight roof covering.
That type of “unordinary” high wind induced damage, verses long-term “normal” environmental “wear and tear” damage is VERY different, forensically.
Too, suddenly, PARTIALLY, and consistently uniform/detached shingles lifted on one end by the directional winds, and shimmed up with wind borne debris, creating a visual/physical “zipper” effect is not to be mistaken with long term ‘heat build-up’ or ‘moisture’ damage markers.
ALL in place/post high wind storm affected roofing systems should be HAND checked (by a seasoned post storm construction professional) for their ACTUAL physical integrity, as they very may not make it through another critical wind/storm event, and all that that can mean…
Admittingly I don’t know it all “Pops”, however I myself don’t attempt to give anyone misinformation, and like yourself, also encourage ALL insurer trusting consumers to research even your “facts” so as to weigh out what manufacturers and nature and their own home have to say about actual post hurricane/wind storm damage, verses everyday damage.
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Well, Roger Poe, the roofing contractor is at it again with his innuendoes and other half truths about roofing shingle deterioration that results from a large number of non-storm related which he conveniently selectively omits.
His attempt to quote Elk Roofing Company’s statement of explanations as to why certain causes of shingle deterioration are NOT covered under their “limited warranty” statements is a “twisting” of the truth as to the real causes of “granular loss”.
Never once does Roger Poe tell the reader of this forum that the most common cause of granular loss is the result of POOR OR INADEQUATE attic ventilation. Folks, check it out yourselves. Just do your research on web-sites of “ventilation” materials manufacturers and, for a second opionion, other roofing manufacturers for their learned comments, and you will come away with a better understanding as to why property insurance companies deny roofing claims for “ordinary wear and tear”, as this condition predates the storm activities. The “build-up” of attic heat literally “bakes” the underside of the roofing shingles causing the embedded tar in the shingles to dry out, allowing the “seal-down” sealant to break its bond, and the granular coating to also break its bond and wash off by normal rainfall.
Also, fiberglas/asphalt composition roofing shingles are more susceptible to deterioration from high humidity and huge amounts of rainfall in the southern states than the drier areas of the country. To see this in action, just look at this type of roofing where large shadetree branches grow over the front and back slopes of dwelling roofs. The sun never shines on the roofing long enough to dry out the shingles before the next rain. These water logged shingles literally “rot” from constant moisture. Moss growths are also found to form on wet shingles.
I realize this post is indirectly off point from the State Farm/Dickie Scruggs battle, but it is a rebuttal of strong MISINFORMATION posted by Roger Poe.
And YES, I’m a defender of the Property Insurance Industry because, as one poster previously stated, not all claims are payable because they are not “insurable” events, otherwise no one could pay the premium cost for unlimited protection, and we all would be without insurance in time of help (not profit).
I’m glad that the whistleblowers in Louisiana are doing such a wonderful job. A friend of mine is keeping me updated with details and finds that he discovers that brings new flavor to the decimation of the current insurance frauds. I’m glad that people are doing something about the crooks that survive among the good people of the nation. What makes me the most happy is that up north here in Pennsylvania I’ve began telling all sorts of people including some of my family who are also lawyers which practice in Philadelphia, every bit of information I can from my friend down south. Everything that I hear to bring these crooks down I throw around to the folks up here hoping that they tell their friends and so on and so forth. I sincerely feel that in the near future after all the congressional hearings and all the ******** that there might be a federal insurance reform. Our program today really isn’t so bad however the crooks who run these business really are hurting innocent people who elect to purchase insurance from the “little guy”. I’m in full support with Scruggs on this one and State Farm, yall better just bow down and kiss yer asses goodbye… If our government don’t see that you cheated the thousands of people, well God will. What are you going to say to him when confronted? Goodluck to those pursuing redemption and god bless.
LL:
Has the industry not done it to themselves. When I started back in the dark ages, there were many standard fire policies written. There were many HO-1 and HO-2 policies written. Carpet was ACV. Many roof provisions were ACV. Fences were not coevred for wind. Awnings and screens were not covered for wind. Falling objects were just that, not wind blown tree limbs. And to be competetive, the standards for HO-3 and HO-5 were lowered as well as premiums. Underwriting is limited these days to loss history. Companies appear to be subscribing to the Warren Buffet philosphy; “Take in enough premium to finance your companies and don’t worry about the loss ratio unless it exceeds 110%.”
So sad all lies Comment:
many (uninformed) people’s idea of insurance is “I have insurance for something will if you have State Farm you will be lie to over and over this is state farm history.
The Insurance Industry has 0 loyalty to the policyholders. They screw you and offer a guarantee of Annual Rate Increases with more exclusions. You can Call Mr Rust, Like I did Over A year ago. ” IF THOU CAN BELIVE< ALL THINGS BECOME POSSIBLE TO HIM THAT BELIVETH. MR Rust out west we belive in the good guys we make phone calls when someone dose us wrong. I call your office of over a year, 2/3 time a day. All I want to do was tell you the way your people play with my life, to no a vail. May be if you would have this compay would not be in so deep.
Posted By: Bill
Comment:
Oh yes, if it’s on a website it’s the gospel truth! Give me a break!
mR bILL THE WEB HAS ALL COURT FILES WHY TO YOU THINK GONZALES WANT,S TO STOP ALL THE INF.SAY IT,S FINGER THE REAL BAD GUYS ! WE FIND THEM BUT NO ONE WILL TAKE THEM ON OH BUT WANT MR HOOD- I GUESS GONZALES FOR –GET MR HOOD IN ALL THE M-S YOU CAN NOT STOP PEOPLE OUT SIDE THE WEB MR GONZALES SO HOW ABOUT GOING ON YOU PALYDAY!!! FOR THE PUZZLE IS HOW CAN YOU DO YOUR JOB gONZALES— MR RUST IS YOUR FRIEND. nOT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SO HARM BY THIS FOR-OVER A YEAR – I CALL FOR HELP TO YOUR OFFICE BIG JOKE. I WAS TELL YOU DO NOT DEAL WITH INS FRAUD OF THIS KIND IN ALL OF MY CALLING THAT I MAKE FOR OVER A YEAR 3/4 TIME A DAY NO ONE DEALS WITH THIS KIND OF FRAUD WHY IS THAT I ASK PUT THE PUZ. OPEN YOUR EYES COUNTRY.
Posted By: Mr. Obvious
Comment:
State Farm denied claims. Big Whoop. Every insurance company denies claims. Insurance companies have a responsibility to their policyholders and/or shareholders dEAR mR OBVIOUS YOU USED POLICYHOLDERS WOULD THAT BE ?ME. cOULD YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT WHY IT,S OK TO PAY THIS /?? HARD EARN MONEY– OUT TO T-I-S
I happen to work for a company that is well known for finding coverage for our insureds when legally their is none. Our insureds pay a higher premium than our competitors, but they get treated better too.
It appears that many (uninformed) people’s idea of insurance is “I have insurance for something, when something happens, I should be paid” without remembering that they chose the chevy premium, and declined the rolls royce premium.
Pops,
Hurricane force [74+MPH] winds PLUS 25%+ higher wind gusts and other individual “winds within the wind” commonly create a environment that by its very nature is abrasive to roof coverings and other structural components.
Flying micro-projectiles (dull, sharp, or otherwise) leave their own unique “fingerprints” on surfaces, such as fiberglass shingles, painted surfaces, guttering surfaces, window frames/glass, AC Unit cooling foils, garage doors, fencing finishes, vehicles, etc.
The older the roofing system, the more clear the effects of the wind generated abrasive action.
Forensically these abrasive “fingerprints” are VERY different from heat and moisture damage.
After witnessing at least 12 catastrophes [that I too have witnessed] ones can be certain that Allstate and State Farm know these actual loss claim issues quite well.
In fact, bizarrely, the tar sealant bond damage was recognized in Louisiana after hurricane Katrina, but not in SE Texas after hurricane Rita.
Also, critically high wind detaches a shingle from the one below it by pushing/pulling on the outside ends of the shingle, eventually BREAKING the tar tab bonding material that is designed to create a monolithic wind/weather tight roof covering.
That type of “unordinary” high wind induced damage, verses long-term “normal” environmental “wear and tear” damage is VERY different, forensically.
Too, suddenly, PARTIALLY, and consistently uniform/detached shingles lifted on one end by the directional winds, and shimmed up with wind borne debris, creating a visual/physical “zipper” effect is not to be mistaken with long term ‘heat build-up’ or ‘moisture’ damage markers.
ALL in place/post high wind storm affected roofing systems should be HAND checked (by a seasoned post storm construction professional) for their ACTUAL physical integrity, as they very may not make it through another critical wind/storm event, and all that that can mean…
Admittingly I don’t know it all “Pops”, however I myself don’t attempt to give anyone misinformation, and like yourself, also encourage ALL insurer trusting consumers to research even your “facts” so as to weigh out what manufacturers and nature and their own home have to say about actual post hurricane/wind storm damage, verses everyday damage.
rogerpoegc@gmail.com
P.S. I’m a general contractor that hires roofing contractors.