The focus of this article is CHILDREN. They lack the experience, maturity, coordination, judgment and insight to assess a risk and act responsibly. Let adults do what they wish to get their kicks, but the kids need to be protected.
Claims guy,
I still think if used properly, ATVs are not dangerous, even to kids. They don’t just tip over if riden at safe speeds and not driving them like a maniac. The key is to instill responsibility and respect of the vehicle in our kids. There are hundreds of thousands of kids / parents who use ATVs on a regular basis and would argue against the idea that ATVs are dangerous. It’s the select few who ruin the fun for everyone else.
I would make the argument that ATV’s like autos are inherently (by defintion: in its character or nature) dangerous. As you mentioned it is the responsibility on the part of the rider that offsets this inherent nature. The article does have merit in the regards of educating parents. Unfortunately some parents let their kids ride these ATV’s without supervision or any training. The ones who do supervise or train, I congratulate you. It is often the kids when left to their own devices that will speed, take risks, etc. Think back to when you were 12. I remember being a little reckless, and I was even a little more reckless at 16 when I was behind the wheel of a car. I don’t think we should ban these things because they are dangerous (as you mentioned swimming, biking, etc are also dangerous), just educate kids because it is in their nature to take risks, thus endangering their lives and the lives around them. A little commen sense goes a long way. The funny thing about commen sense though is how uncommon it really is.
This is more of a “scare-tactic hack piece” than a serious study. A good study needs a denominator, something to base the deaths against to determine a rate.
For example, the U.S. averages over 40,000 deaths in automobile accidents per year. According to the U.S. Census, about 16% of the population is 16 or under. Over twenty years, one would expect that over 800,000 people have died on the road. That implies around 128,000 kids have died in cars over the same time the Consumer Product Safety Commission says that 49 kids have died on ATVs, so “obviously” it’s far more dangerous for 16-year-olds and under to be in a car than on an ATV, and we should ban kids from riding in cars!
Doesn’t make sense, right? Precisely because we need a denominator, deaths per ATV or deaths per ATV-mile driven, something, in order to make 49 kids died in 20 years (1982 to 2001) meaningful and in context. That’s why I call this article a “scare-tactic hack piece.”
Even after establishing a death or injury rate per unit exposure, there is an issue of insurable price. I doubt the rate is as scary as the article tries to project, but even if it were, if we could charge enough for the risk, would it matter?
It’s only a scare tactic by those who perceive it as such. The good doctor is simply firing a shot across the parents bow to remind them of the potential risk to their children. The parents are the ultimate decision makers and will have to live their decisions. They only need to ask one simple question: is the temporary enjoyment/thrill worth the risk of being severely injured? Would you want your kid to look you in the eye and ask “why didn’t you stop me?”.
If you’re going to use an anologies, at least try to make them on-point. None of the examples you cite compare with putting a juvenile in an open cockpit ATV that is intended to be used on a trail and usually in rugged conditions, with minimal personal safety equipment, and probably being driven by someone else. If you’re so obtuse to recognize that ATV’s are on the high end of the risk scale, I’d bet you’re in the minority. But don’t critize a legitmate commentary by a medical professional, and apparently other posts by those who feel the same. And don’t think about suing the ATV manufacturer or property owner if your kid gets injured. Just look in the mirror. Unlike legitimate competitive sports, driving an automobile, and falling in love, driving an ATV IS NOT a common risk.
We’ve all got our opinions, Bill, so I don’t mind you calling me obtuse. Nor do I mind you admonishing me for critcizing your posts (yet you critcize mine? hmmm..) But you still fail to see the point that if used improperly and irresponsibly, ATVs, like cars, like bikes, like snowmobiles, like jetskis, like guns… they all can be dangerous. So do we prohibit the use of anything that can be dangerous? Hell, I can take this keyboard and smack my coworker upside the head! Maybe you, as a medical professional, should condemn the use of keyboards!
But if you want to live your life like a coward, watching from the sidelines, fearful of anything that comes your way, that’s your choice. I had a great childhood climbing trees, playing sports, swimming 10 minutes after eating, running with scissors… Somehow I managed to survive. Come to think of it, I can’t think of one childhood friend who lived the same way, that isn’t alive and well today. Fortunate? Maybe. Cowardish, definitely not!
Bill, in some areas ATV’s are a common exposure and bicycles and competitive sports aren’t. There are some areas in America that hunt all the time and some that never see a gun. We can’t base what is “common” on our own experience.
The key is education and training. Everything has inherent risk. As a safety professional I recognize that risk can not be fully eliminated, only reduced through engineering, management controls or PPE. We reduce the risk to an acceptable level and go with that. We educate and train, and still people get hurt. I have a niece that’s been riding for about 4 years now (she’s 8) – never been hurt and controls her ATV better than many others I’ve seen. She was educated and trained well. I wouldn’t recommend that for every child, but it was common in that community and there was a lot of support for proper behavior.
Joey, it’s not about being cowardly. Some people have a lower tolerance for risk than others. We can’t condemn them for it – unless and until they wish to force us to accept their lower tolerance. Those of us with higher risk tolerance must also be prepared to pay for it. I fully believe climbers should pay for their rescue, that you should be required to carry insurance for ATV accidents, that gun owners are responsible for the bullet until it stops, you name the risk. We need to have personal responsibility, and if we want indemnification we need to buy insurance.
I agree. ATV’s ARE clumsy to operate. Not everything is as easy as it looks. It took me a couple of years to learn to ski or ride a motorcycle but riding an ATV felt uncomfortable and I felt as if I would loose control at each turn; my earliest memories of ski-doos and snowmobiles are the horror stories of what went wrong and how bad the resulting injuries were. Kids lack the inate fear that creates caution and appreciates danger. Instead they end up hurting themselves sometimes at the first opportunity, simply because they “didn’t mean to do that”. The chance of danger are too high and I certainly did not let my kids talk me into getting one, no matter who was going to ride it.
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The focus of this article is CHILDREN. They lack the experience, maturity, coordination, judgment and insight to assess a risk and act responsibly. Let adults do what they wish to get their kicks, but the kids need to be protected.
Claims guy,
I still think if used properly, ATVs are not dangerous, even to kids. They don’t just tip over if riden at safe speeds and not driving them like a maniac. The key is to instill responsibility and respect of the vehicle in our kids. There are hundreds of thousands of kids / parents who use ATVs on a regular basis and would argue against the idea that ATVs are dangerous. It’s the select few who ruin the fun for everyone else.
I would make the argument that ATV’s like autos are inherently (by defintion: in its character or nature) dangerous. As you mentioned it is the responsibility on the part of the rider that offsets this inherent nature. The article does have merit in the regards of educating parents. Unfortunately some parents let their kids ride these ATV’s without supervision or any training. The ones who do supervise or train, I congratulate you. It is often the kids when left to their own devices that will speed, take risks, etc. Think back to when you were 12. I remember being a little reckless, and I was even a little more reckless at 16 when I was behind the wheel of a car. I don’t think we should ban these things because they are dangerous (as you mentioned swimming, biking, etc are also dangerous), just educate kids because it is in their nature to take risks, thus endangering their lives and the lives around them. A little commen sense goes a long way. The funny thing about commen sense though is how uncommon it really is.
This is more of a “scare-tactic hack piece” than a serious study. A good study needs a denominator, something to base the deaths against to determine a rate.
For example, the U.S. averages over 40,000 deaths in automobile accidents per year. According to the U.S. Census, about 16% of the population is 16 or under. Over twenty years, one would expect that over 800,000 people have died on the road. That implies around 128,000 kids have died in cars over the same time the Consumer Product Safety Commission says that 49 kids have died on ATVs, so “obviously” it’s far more dangerous for 16-year-olds and under to be in a car than on an ATV, and we should ban kids from riding in cars!
Doesn’t make sense, right? Precisely because we need a denominator, deaths per ATV or deaths per ATV-mile driven, something, in order to make 49 kids died in 20 years (1982 to 2001) meaningful and in context. That’s why I call this article a “scare-tactic hack piece.”
Even after establishing a death or injury rate per unit exposure, there is an issue of insurable price. I doubt the rate is as scary as the article tries to project, but even if it were, if we could charge enough for the risk, would it matter?
It’s only a scare tactic by those who perceive it as such. The good doctor is simply firing a shot across the parents bow to remind them of the potential risk to their children. The parents are the ultimate decision makers and will have to live their decisions. They only need to ask one simple question: is the temporary enjoyment/thrill worth the risk of being severely injured? Would you want your kid to look you in the eye and ask “why didn’t you stop me?”.
“why didn’t you stop me from playing competitive sports?”
“why didn’t you stop me from getting my license?”
“why didn’t you stop me from dating that boy / girl who just broke my heart?”
To live your life in fear and looking at every situation as being potentially dangerous is not much of a life at all!
If you’re going to use an anologies, at least try to make them on-point. None of the examples you cite compare with putting a juvenile in an open cockpit ATV that is intended to be used on a trail and usually in rugged conditions, with minimal personal safety equipment, and probably being driven by someone else. If you’re so obtuse to recognize that ATV’s are on the high end of the risk scale, I’d bet you’re in the minority. But don’t critize a legitmate commentary by a medical professional, and apparently other posts by those who feel the same. And don’t think about suing the ATV manufacturer or property owner if your kid gets injured. Just look in the mirror. Unlike legitimate competitive sports, driving an automobile, and falling in love, driving an ATV IS NOT a common risk.
We’ve all got our opinions, Bill, so I don’t mind you calling me obtuse. Nor do I mind you admonishing me for critcizing your posts (yet you critcize mine? hmmm..) But you still fail to see the point that if used improperly and irresponsibly, ATVs, like cars, like bikes, like snowmobiles, like jetskis, like guns… they all can be dangerous. So do we prohibit the use of anything that can be dangerous? Hell, I can take this keyboard and smack my coworker upside the head! Maybe you, as a medical professional, should condemn the use of keyboards!
But if you want to live your life like a coward, watching from the sidelines, fearful of anything that comes your way, that’s your choice. I had a great childhood climbing trees, playing sports, swimming 10 minutes after eating, running with scissors… Somehow I managed to survive. Come to think of it, I can’t think of one childhood friend who lived the same way, that isn’t alive and well today. Fortunate? Maybe. Cowardish, definitely not!
Bill, in some areas ATV’s are a common exposure and bicycles and competitive sports aren’t. There are some areas in America that hunt all the time and some that never see a gun. We can’t base what is “common” on our own experience.
The key is education and training. Everything has inherent risk. As a safety professional I recognize that risk can not be fully eliminated, only reduced through engineering, management controls or PPE. We reduce the risk to an acceptable level and go with that. We educate and train, and still people get hurt. I have a niece that’s been riding for about 4 years now (she’s 8) – never been hurt and controls her ATV better than many others I’ve seen. She was educated and trained well. I wouldn’t recommend that for every child, but it was common in that community and there was a lot of support for proper behavior.
Joey, it’s not about being cowardly. Some people have a lower tolerance for risk than others. We can’t condemn them for it – unless and until they wish to force us to accept their lower tolerance. Those of us with higher risk tolerance must also be prepared to pay for it. I fully believe climbers should pay for their rescue, that you should be required to carry insurance for ATV accidents, that gun owners are responsible for the bullet until it stops, you name the risk. We need to have personal responsibility, and if we want indemnification we need to buy insurance.
My two cents, for what they’re worth.
I agree. ATV’s ARE clumsy to operate. Not everything is as easy as it looks. It took me a couple of years to learn to ski or ride a motorcycle but riding an ATV felt uncomfortable and I felt as if I would loose control at each turn; my earliest memories of ski-doos and snowmobiles are the horror stories of what went wrong and how bad the resulting injuries were. Kids lack the inate fear that creates caution and appreciates danger. Instead they end up hurting themselves sometimes at the first opportunity, simply because they “didn’t mean to do that”. The chance of danger are too high and I certainly did not let my kids talk me into getting one, no matter who was going to ride it.