I’m not saying Bush was a saint… he played ball just like every over politician. It’s just that dems have a habit of blaming everything on him, when in reality there is plenty of blame to go around…
“It was deregulation of the banks under the Reagan Administration which put into motion the mortgage processes that are currently being cleaned up.”
Yes, degregulation can open the door for corruption. But then forcing banks to give loans to people who surely cannot afford them… really? That’s like a double negative
The problem is that there is no equal point. Regulation needs to match opportunity and it currently does not (and really never has). In some areas there is too much regulation and in other areas there isn’t enough.
Since I believe that opportunity and incentive are more powerful and effective than gov’t regulation… I would then argue that there has been too much regulation.
I agree however… there needs to be heavy regulation of the derivatives market… that crap is out of control.
But again… have regulation match oppotunity. Once there is over-regulation, you now have a power hungry and corrupt gov’t.
I think we’ve seen just how efficient that unregulated capitalism has been. Wall Street has run amok with your children’s futures with its fantasy finance. Our economy has been bled dry by banksters taking risks with other people’s money. They were the first to scream bloody murder/the sky is falling/the world will come to an end when their house of cards started to fall apart. They are the only ones who have benefitted from this massive government spending.
The reason that Obama has spent so much has been to bail out/prop up the massive ponzi scheme we call the derivative market. Who benefitted… was it the working American? Hell no. The money went to the same people who created the problem. It’s back to business as usual for them. Meanwhile main street is a quagmire.
Who do you think promoted easy money lending? Follow the money. The people who have the gold make the rules. The banksters have bought and paid for our government for a long time. Now we are all paying for their greed and corruption. Once China realizes that they are throwing good money after bad, the whole house of cards will collapse like a cheap umbrella in a windstorm.
Look to see who has benefitted from this cancerous delusional corruption and you will see who is responsible. We will all pay.
I believe we are beyond the tipping point and no longer have control of our destinies. We are a failed empire. The golden goose is cooked.
BTW, a great read is “The Looting of America, How Wall Street’s Game of Fantasy Finance Destroyed our Jobs, Pensions and Prosperity.” Author Les Leopold.
Most of this could have been avoided if our politicians weren’t so corrupt.
Almost every gov’t official is in someone else’s pocket. Even your beloved Obama is to blame for this (he is owned by Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac; I forget which one or if both).
A get what you guys are saying, but how is our gov’t going to regulate corruption if they themselves are corrupt?
Both are bad but I would much rather have freedom and opportunity than a corrupt gov’t that has control over my life.
It’s basically up to us to provide “hope and change”. No one else can fix this but us. Now, how we go about doing that… I’m not completely sure. First thing however… these bozos in Washington, all of them, need to go.
Our unregulated capitalism has also helped us become the most powerful nation in the world, both economically and militarily.
We wouldn’t be anywhere close to where we are now if it wasn’t for the freedom we have enjoyed.
Yes we (the people) pay for the corruption of others – it stinks. But with socialized programs and out of control government spending – we also pay (and probably a lot more).
Welfare breeds welfare… I am all for universal health care and all that jazz, but only when we get our house in order first. Right now, we just can’t take it (financially).
Did you express any of your “fiscal responsibility” mantra when Mr. Bush (actually Cheney – Bush was just a useful idiot) was borrowing us into oblivion with his two wars which just happened to benefit Mr. Cheney’s companies enormously?
Now it’s time to tighten belts. Not Wall Street’s belts, just the people who paid into Social Security all their life. You have reguritated the Glen Beck/Fox Noise lines nicely.
All this won’t matter because we’re circling the drain of history. I look forward to your wanting to vote out all the Republican incumbents two years from now when our economy is even worse off than it is now.
Remember…”There’s nothing so bad that it can’t get worse.” It will. But as that great chairman of the Fed, Ben Bernanke said…”The recession is over.” What he didn’t tell you is we’re in a depression… and it’s gonna get real ugly for us all.
I will sign off for the day. I have to work for a living.
How are you going to regulate a situation to allow for people who couldn’t afford homes, to be able to pay for homes? How are you going to make sure they get more money? What regulation will put dollars into their hands? What regulation will allow for a homeowner to be able to sell a home and get a new one without being upside down? How are you going to fix it? The companies who invested in loans actually invested in the government. It wasn’t deregulation, it was regulation that went to hell. The common factor is that in areas where things are not regulated, it is IMPOSSIBLE for them all to fail the same way. Does it not seem a bit odd to you that EVERY financial company, insurance company, and lending company fell…THE EXACT SAME WAY?? This means follow the line my friend, they had a common denominator. Learn to think. If everything is roped together with a common regulation, that common regulation failed. The people who were “bled dry” (an expression does not equate to truth my friend, no matter how many liberal media sources agree with the expression)were not bled dry to lack of regulation. If you’re going to claim dergulation and “bled dry” you have to state a fact or source involving deregulation leading to that. You “assume” it was deregulation. You are incorrect.
I won’t debate with you on it, but your confidence is befitting of someone who has no clue what they are talking about. I will give you a hint: Your arguements have not directed the issues that Mula put forward. You just threw out one liners and cliches.
Chris…
Does the name Resolution Trust Corporation mean anything to you? How about Silverado Savings & Loan in Colorado. Do you recall George Bush (the father) going to Japan and “tossing his cookies” at a dinner? Do you remember the guest list? Fortune 500 leaders who paid a lot of $$$ for the privilege of escorting President Bush on that trip. They also paid to bail out REPUBLICAN politicians who had used Silverado Savings & Loan as loan central for their campaigns. This isn’t “spin central” CNN or anything other than FACTS and how do I know this? Maurice Greenberg of AIG was on that trip with President Bush and AIG paid off those loans prior to RTC taking over the bank. Oh, there wasn’t an insurance policy…just an off-shore captive by the name of Coral Re. Oh…and who worked for the bank…Neil Bush.
You are funny Jim and I think you are too hyped up on Donkey Juice, lol.
I too work for a living, it just doesn’t take me tons of time to formulate a response which is why I can both blog and work at the same time.
You assume a lot about what I think. Here is my response:
“Did you express any of your “fiscal responsibility” mantra when Mr. Bush (actually Cheney – Bush was just a useful idiot) was borrowing us into oblivion with his two wars which just happened to benefit Mr. Cheney’s companies enormously?”
There you go again reverting back to “Bush is to blame”. This is getting old guys – soon you won’t be able to blame Bush/Cheney for all of your party’s faults. All politicians are corrupt – please actually read my prior post.
In all honesty I didn’t really like Bush, I felt he didn’t really know what he was doing (same as Obama). However, I did support the war/s. Unlike you (I guess) I don’t like psycho religious fanactics crashing planes into bldgs and killing people. What do you think would have happened if we didn’t take the fight to them? I don’t even want to imagine. It kills you because Bush succeeded in what he set out to do. Iraq was pushing it, but it is still working.
Yeah the war was expensive, but not near expensive as this fail of a healthcare plan will be.
“Now it’s time to tighten belts. Not Wall Street’s belts, just the people who paid into Social Security all their life. You have reguritated the Glen Beck/Fox Noise lines nicely.”
We should have been tightening our belts (and wall street’s belt) during the Bush administration and prior to the Bush administration. I agree with you on that (you just assumed otherwise). There were plenty of conversatives pushing for reduced spending – it’s just hard to cut the supply line when your fellow countrymen are dying so that you can sleep at night.
I want to vote out all encumbents period – both democrats and republicans. It just so happens that the dems are calling the shots (contrary to what the people want), yeah it is more directed towards them.
Actually it makes perfect sense, despite my being ticked off at Jim’s blatant attempt of trying to stir up a “Bush” arguement, of which I’m sorry but that will get me to rant considerably. Jim is a blasted fool.
The only thing that strings all companies together are common rules, if all companies fail for a common reason, they all followed a common rule. I’m sorry but no, not all companies fail at the same time in a free market system. You only believe that because of the great depression, which a bunch of liberals have painted as a “regulation” issue.
Here are the facts: In a free market companies fail, companies succeed. Companies who want to succeed, take their best measures to make sure they won’t fail. As an example: Are you aware than until CARTER a 20% down payment was almost ALWAYS required to get a loan? Regulations were put in play, including the Fair Housing Act, (Under Clinton) and evniroments were set up were regulated companies competed with non-regulated companies. Here’s the problem: At the same time, companies were REQUIRED to write an amount of sub prime loans. The government would fine you if you didn’t. We are talking NO DOWN PAYMENT we are talking HIGH INTEREST to ensure they don’t lose profit, the companies were all WORKING AROUND A FAILED REGULATION. The loans all started failing. When those failed everyone who invested in those companies (thinking that if the companies were REGULATED there must be no way they would fail RIGHT???) so let’s put it clear to you:
If all the companies took the same common action (giving out loans to those who could not afford them) then the problem was the REGULATION. That is the only way that all companies will fail at the same time in the same line of business. Everyone else just fell as a result. “Bleeding dry” is an expression. My directing that made perfect sense. From Jim’s perspective, because these companies failed for being stupid we are all now screwed, and that’s how we were bled dry. That’s incorrect. The loans failed, (because the people were given loans, forced by regulation, that they could not afford) which bankrupted the companies, who did not want for that to happen. At the source? REGULATION.
End of story. If you have been brainwashed by liberals (as most people have) then that’s your problem.
Now I feel I must also convey the following: I already pointed out I am not republican. So don’t use that cop out on me to avoid the accuracy of my comments. They are entirely, undeniably, true.
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It was deregulation of the banks under the Reagan Administration which put into motion the mortgage processes that are currently being cleaned up.
And please don’t tell me for one moment that you did not realize that George Bush never encountered an appropriation bill he could not sign…
I’ll be happy to have a discourse with you void of anything other than FACTS which can be VALIDATED.
I’m not saying Bush was a saint… he played ball just like every over politician. It’s just that dems have a habit of blaming everything on him, when in reality there is plenty of blame to go around…
“It was deregulation of the banks under the Reagan Administration which put into motion the mortgage processes that are currently being cleaned up.”
Yes, degregulation can open the door for corruption. But then forcing banks to give loans to people who surely cannot afford them… really? That’s like a double negative
The problem is that there is no equal point. Regulation needs to match opportunity and it currently does not (and really never has). In some areas there is too much regulation and in other areas there isn’t enough.
Since I believe that opportunity and incentive are more powerful and effective than gov’t regulation… I would then argue that there has been too much regulation.
I agree however… there needs to be heavy regulation of the derivatives market… that crap is out of control.
But again… have regulation match oppotunity. Once there is over-regulation, you now have a power hungry and corrupt gov’t.
Mula,
I think we’ve seen just how efficient that unregulated capitalism has been. Wall Street has run amok with your children’s futures with its fantasy finance. Our economy has been bled dry by banksters taking risks with other people’s money. They were the first to scream bloody murder/the sky is falling/the world will come to an end when their house of cards started to fall apart. They are the only ones who have benefitted from this massive government spending.
The reason that Obama has spent so much has been to bail out/prop up the massive ponzi scheme we call the derivative market. Who benefitted… was it the working American? Hell no. The money went to the same people who created the problem. It’s back to business as usual for them. Meanwhile main street is a quagmire.
Who do you think promoted easy money lending? Follow the money. The people who have the gold make the rules. The banksters have bought and paid for our government for a long time. Now we are all paying for their greed and corruption. Once China realizes that they are throwing good money after bad, the whole house of cards will collapse like a cheap umbrella in a windstorm.
Look to see who has benefitted from this cancerous delusional corruption and you will see who is responsible. We will all pay.
I believe we are beyond the tipping point and no longer have control of our destinies. We are a failed empire. The golden goose is cooked.
BTW, a great read is “The Looting of America, How Wall Street’s Game of Fantasy Finance Destroyed our Jobs, Pensions and Prosperity.” Author Les Leopold.
Most of this could have been avoided if our politicians weren’t so corrupt.
Almost every gov’t official is in someone else’s pocket. Even your beloved Obama is to blame for this (he is owned by Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac; I forget which one or if both).
A get what you guys are saying, but how is our gov’t going to regulate corruption if they themselves are corrupt?
Both are bad but I would much rather have freedom and opportunity than a corrupt gov’t that has control over my life.
It’s basically up to us to provide “hope and change”. No one else can fix this but us. Now, how we go about doing that… I’m not completely sure. First thing however… these bozos in Washington, all of them, need to go.
Our unregulated capitalism has also helped us become the most powerful nation in the world, both economically and militarily.
We wouldn’t be anywhere close to where we are now if it wasn’t for the freedom we have enjoyed.
Yes we (the people) pay for the corruption of others – it stinks. But with socialized programs and out of control government spending – we also pay (and probably a lot more).
Welfare breeds welfare… I am all for universal health care and all that jazz, but only when we get our house in order first. Right now, we just can’t take it (financially).
Mula,
Did you express any of your “fiscal responsibility” mantra when Mr. Bush (actually Cheney – Bush was just a useful idiot) was borrowing us into oblivion with his two wars which just happened to benefit Mr. Cheney’s companies enormously?
Now it’s time to tighten belts. Not Wall Street’s belts, just the people who paid into Social Security all their life. You have reguritated the Glen Beck/Fox Noise lines nicely.
All this won’t matter because we’re circling the drain of history. I look forward to your wanting to vote out all the Republican incumbents two years from now when our economy is even worse off than it is now.
Remember…”There’s nothing so bad that it can’t get worse.” It will. But as that great chairman of the Fed, Ben Bernanke said…”The recession is over.” What he didn’t tell you is we’re in a depression… and it’s gonna get real ugly for us all.
I will sign off for the day. I have to work for a living.
And this is why the U.S. is falling…
Ok Jim, let’s set this equation up:
How are you going to regulate a situation to allow for people who couldn’t afford homes, to be able to pay for homes? How are you going to make sure they get more money? What regulation will put dollars into their hands? What regulation will allow for a homeowner to be able to sell a home and get a new one without being upside down? How are you going to fix it? The companies who invested in loans actually invested in the government. It wasn’t deregulation, it was regulation that went to hell. The common factor is that in areas where things are not regulated, it is IMPOSSIBLE for them all to fail the same way. Does it not seem a bit odd to you that EVERY financial company, insurance company, and lending company fell…THE EXACT SAME WAY?? This means follow the line my friend, they had a common denominator. Learn to think. If everything is roped together with a common regulation, that common regulation failed. The people who were “bled dry” (an expression does not equate to truth my friend, no matter how many liberal media sources agree with the expression)were not bled dry to lack of regulation. If you’re going to claim dergulation and “bled dry” you have to state a fact or source involving deregulation leading to that. You “assume” it was deregulation. You are incorrect.
I won’t debate with you on it, but your confidence is befitting of someone who has no clue what they are talking about. I will give you a hint: Your arguements have not directed the issues that Mula put forward. You just threw out one liners and cliches.
Chris…
Does the name Resolution Trust Corporation mean anything to you? How about Silverado Savings & Loan in Colorado. Do you recall George Bush (the father) going to Japan and “tossing his cookies” at a dinner? Do you remember the guest list? Fortune 500 leaders who paid a lot of $$$ for the privilege of escorting President Bush on that trip. They also paid to bail out REPUBLICAN politicians who had used Silverado Savings & Loan as loan central for their campaigns. This isn’t “spin central” CNN or anything other than FACTS and how do I know this? Maurice Greenberg of AIG was on that trip with President Bush and AIG paid off those loans prior to RTC taking over the bank. Oh, there wasn’t an insurance policy…just an off-shore captive by the name of Coral Re. Oh…and who worked for the bank…Neil Bush.
You are funny Jim and I think you are too hyped up on Donkey Juice, lol.
I too work for a living, it just doesn’t take me tons of time to formulate a response which is why I can both blog and work at the same time.
You assume a lot about what I think. Here is my response:
“Did you express any of your “fiscal responsibility” mantra when Mr. Bush (actually Cheney – Bush was just a useful idiot) was borrowing us into oblivion with his two wars which just happened to benefit Mr. Cheney’s companies enormously?”
There you go again reverting back to “Bush is to blame”. This is getting old guys – soon you won’t be able to blame Bush/Cheney for all of your party’s faults. All politicians are corrupt – please actually read my prior post.
In all honesty I didn’t really like Bush, I felt he didn’t really know what he was doing (same as Obama). However, I did support the war/s. Unlike you (I guess) I don’t like psycho religious fanactics crashing planes into bldgs and killing people. What do you think would have happened if we didn’t take the fight to them? I don’t even want to imagine. It kills you because Bush succeeded in what he set out to do. Iraq was pushing it, but it is still working.
Yeah the war was expensive, but not near expensive as this fail of a healthcare plan will be.
“Now it’s time to tighten belts. Not Wall Street’s belts, just the people who paid into Social Security all their life. You have reguritated the Glen Beck/Fox Noise lines nicely.”
We should have been tightening our belts (and wall street’s belt) during the Bush administration and prior to the Bush administration. I agree with you on that (you just assumed otherwise). There were plenty of conversatives pushing for reduced spending – it’s just hard to cut the supply line when your fellow countrymen are dying so that you can sleep at night.
I want to vote out all encumbents period – both democrats and republicans. It just so happens that the dems are calling the shots (contrary to what the people want), yeah it is more directed towards them.
Cassandra:
Actually it makes perfect sense, despite my being ticked off at Jim’s blatant attempt of trying to stir up a “Bush” arguement, of which I’m sorry but that will get me to rant considerably. Jim is a blasted fool.
The only thing that strings all companies together are common rules, if all companies fail for a common reason, they all followed a common rule. I’m sorry but no, not all companies fail at the same time in a free market system. You only believe that because of the great depression, which a bunch of liberals have painted as a “regulation” issue.
Here are the facts: In a free market companies fail, companies succeed. Companies who want to succeed, take their best measures to make sure they won’t fail. As an example: Are you aware than until CARTER a 20% down payment was almost ALWAYS required to get a loan? Regulations were put in play, including the Fair Housing Act, (Under Clinton) and evniroments were set up were regulated companies competed with non-regulated companies. Here’s the problem: At the same time, companies were REQUIRED to write an amount of sub prime loans. The government would fine you if you didn’t. We are talking NO DOWN PAYMENT we are talking HIGH INTEREST to ensure they don’t lose profit, the companies were all WORKING AROUND A FAILED REGULATION. The loans all started failing. When those failed everyone who invested in those companies (thinking that if the companies were REGULATED there must be no way they would fail RIGHT???) so let’s put it clear to you:
If all the companies took the same common action (giving out loans to those who could not afford them) then the problem was the REGULATION. That is the only way that all companies will fail at the same time in the same line of business. Everyone else just fell as a result. “Bleeding dry” is an expression. My directing that made perfect sense. From Jim’s perspective, because these companies failed for being stupid we are all now screwed, and that’s how we were bled dry. That’s incorrect. The loans failed, (because the people were given loans, forced by regulation, that they could not afford) which bankrupted the companies, who did not want for that to happen. At the source? REGULATION.
End of story. If you have been brainwashed by liberals (as most people have) then that’s your problem.
Now I feel I must also convey the following: I already pointed out I am not republican. So don’t use that cop out on me to avoid the accuracy of my comments. They are entirely, undeniably, true.