A wonderful point, but you are missing some key points.
No one is “serving” this man. It’s not like the only place to get the alcohol at a party is through 1 sober controlling individual.
There are no controls in this case, no barkeeper, no money exchange, just pick-up the booze and guzzle it down.
But avoiding the next comment- if you are going to hold people responsible because they made the liquor available (without selling it) you would have to throw the liquor store owner, the producers, the truck drivers who delivered it and the state and federal government (who not only allowed it, but made a substantial amount of money in the form of taxes on liquor.)
Further more, the bartender is responsible because (s)he is PERSONALLY serving the drinks and (s)he is employed and trained for that purpose. Although I was not there, I find it highly doubtful that the College Administration where decked out in Tuxedos mixing shakers behind a roll-out bar.
A bar is a controlled setting with people who have ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY by accepting their jobs. A party has none of those aspects and therefore should not be bound or constrained by precedents relating to an established company or organization whose primary function includes the sale and distribution of alcohol.
If instead of dying he gets in a car and kills himself and someone else, do you think anyone else is responsible? There was a similar case in California. Joint enterprise alleged.
i wasn’t a member of a sorority when i was in college, and i don’t really think i have that compelling of an argument, but here is how i interpreted what you said. the “bad apples” may represent a few, but it’s enough to create a tarnished reputation, ergo, we should ban the greek system entirely….well, let’s see…why stop there? all you ever hear about politicians is corruptness, why not ban them as well as the government? most athletes have bad reputations, why not ban professional sports? as of late, most people associate terrorists with islam, why not ban muslims? catholic priests are gathering quite a bad reputation, why not ban catholocism? teachers seem to be falling in love with their 13 year old students, why not ban public education?
personally, i don’t think you have a compelling argument to ban the greek system.
Well Nebraskan, I agree with you today, but I think I know what lastbat is trying to say:
It’s not that this is a reason to do away with the Greek system, but (s)he cannot seem to find a reason to keep it. If it only hurts people and does no real good, then it should not exist.
I don’t agree with that because EVERYTHING does some good in some way, and throwing away tradition because 2% have problems controlling themselves is without merit… or maybe (s)he is just trying to open up the door into gay marriage?
(DISCLAIMER: I’m joking, and am not claiming to know anyone’s sexual orientation, nor would I care if I did.)
Realist – thanks for the comments…i understand what lastbat was trying to say…but i think his/her reason to ban greek system was not compelling, yet he/she was asking for a compelling reason to keep the greek system….
i was a witness to all of those kinds of activities for five years. and believe me…when people say “ban the greek system,” all they are doing is condemning the location. if it’s not a greek house, it will be an off campus house or a dorm room. where there’s a will there’s a way. and much like the finger points to the catholic church specifically regarding child abuse, the finger tends to point to the greek system when it comes to binge drinking at colleges.
the message, in my opinion, shouldn’t be, “if we ban the greek system, we’ll prevent kids from dying,” it should be, “how do we stop binge drinking?”
Thank you, you summed-up the whole issue better then I had thought possible…
“the message, in my opinion, shouldn’t be, “if we ban the greek system, we’ll prevent kids from dying,” it should be, “how do we stop binge drinking?””
Thank you for clarifying my point. I do seem to be having difficulties lately getting the right words out (my vacation is still a month away).
I don’t know that getting rid of the Greek system will in any way affect binge drinking deaths. I wish I could say it would. What I do know is that these deaths are now attributable to a school sponsored system, thus the school is partly to blame for each and every instance. I don’t believe the schools should control every aspect of student life – these are, after all, adults we’re talking about. But I do believe there is a perception the school condones activities at frat and sorority houses because these are school sanctioned places. At the very least it puts the drinking away from the school’s auspices.
College students will always party and drink to excess. That doesn’t mean we have to condone it. And just because the Greek system is a tradition doesn’t mean it’s worth keeping; or at least keeping it as is. I will vouch there are a lot of business contacts and friendships made in the Greek system. These same contacts and friendships can be made elsewhere.
Oh, and most of what Nebraskan lists should be gotten rid of too. (sarcasm)
Geez! I thought that comment about getting married was just a joke about how well Nebraskan and Realist were getting along. For that Hibbsey was snarled at. I think that while there are other ways to make connections and do most, if not all of the positive that is done in the Greek system, historically it’s been a way to set a group apart; it’s about exclusivity. My college banned the Greeks 30 years ago but they’re probably back. The popularity seems to wax and wane. But the bigger issue is how to make children (and at my age an 18 y.o. looks like a child no matter what the law says) to understand their vulnerbility – be it drinking, speeding, unprotected sex or whatever other reckless activity they may engage in. If we come up with an answer we’ll all be in Stockholm next year.
We have updated our privacy policy to be more clear and meet the new requirements of the GDPR. By continuing to use our site, you accept our revised Privacy Policy.
A wonderful point, but you are missing some key points.
No one is “serving” this man. It’s not like the only place to get the alcohol at a party is through 1 sober controlling individual.
There are no controls in this case, no barkeeper, no money exchange, just pick-up the booze and guzzle it down.
But avoiding the next comment- if you are going to hold people responsible because they made the liquor available (without selling it) you would have to throw the liquor store owner, the producers, the truck drivers who delivered it and the state and federal government (who not only allowed it, but made a substantial amount of money in the form of taxes on liquor.)
Further more, the bartender is responsible because (s)he is PERSONALLY serving the drinks and (s)he is employed and trained for that purpose. Although I was not there, I find it highly doubtful that the College Administration where decked out in Tuxedos mixing shakers behind a roll-out bar.
A bar is a controlled setting with people who have ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY by accepting their jobs. A party has none of those aspects and therefore should not be bound or constrained by precedents relating to an established company or organization whose primary function includes the sale and distribution of alcohol.
If instead of dying he gets in a car and kills himself and someone else, do you think anyone else is responsible? There was a similar case in California. Joint enterprise alleged.
i wasn’t a member of a sorority when i was in college, and i don’t really think i have that compelling of an argument, but here is how i interpreted what you said. the “bad apples” may represent a few, but it’s enough to create a tarnished reputation, ergo, we should ban the greek system entirely….well, let’s see…why stop there? all you ever hear about politicians is corruptness, why not ban them as well as the government? most athletes have bad reputations, why not ban professional sports? as of late, most people associate terrorists with islam, why not ban muslims? catholic priests are gathering quite a bad reputation, why not ban catholocism? teachers seem to be falling in love with their 13 year old students, why not ban public education?
personally, i don’t think you have a compelling argument to ban the greek system.
Well Nebraskan, I agree with you today, but I think I know what lastbat is trying to say:
It’s not that this is a reason to do away with the Greek system, but (s)he cannot seem to find a reason to keep it. If it only hurts people and does no real good, then it should not exist.
I don’t agree with that because EVERYTHING does some good in some way, and throwing away tradition because 2% have problems controlling themselves is without merit… or maybe (s)he is just trying to open up the door into gay marriage?
(DISCLAIMER: I’m joking, and am not claiming to know anyone’s sexual orientation, nor would I care if I did.)
Realist – thanks for the comments…i understand what lastbat was trying to say…but i think his/her reason to ban greek system was not compelling, yet he/she was asking for a compelling reason to keep the greek system….
i was a witness to all of those kinds of activities for five years. and believe me…when people say “ban the greek system,” all they are doing is condemning the location. if it’s not a greek house, it will be an off campus house or a dorm room. where there’s a will there’s a way. and much like the finger points to the catholic church specifically regarding child abuse, the finger tends to point to the greek system when it comes to binge drinking at colleges.
the message, in my opinion, shouldn’t be, “if we ban the greek system, we’ll prevent kids from dying,” it should be, “how do we stop binge drinking?”
Thank you, you summed-up the whole issue better then I had thought possible…
“the message, in my opinion, shouldn’t be, “if we ban the greek system, we’ll prevent kids from dying,” it should be, “how do we stop binge drinking?””
Well, done (even if the answer is “you can’t.”)
Wow! That was nice! I think you two should get married!
Sorry Hibbsey…next time we’ll dumb it down so you can particpate. i’d hate for you to break down and have a mature conversation.
Nebraskan and Realist –
Thank you for clarifying my point. I do seem to be having difficulties lately getting the right words out (my vacation is still a month away).
I don’t know that getting rid of the Greek system will in any way affect binge drinking deaths. I wish I could say it would. What I do know is that these deaths are now attributable to a school sponsored system, thus the school is partly to blame for each and every instance. I don’t believe the schools should control every aspect of student life – these are, after all, adults we’re talking about. But I do believe there is a perception the school condones activities at frat and sorority houses because these are school sanctioned places. At the very least it puts the drinking away from the school’s auspices.
College students will always party and drink to excess. That doesn’t mean we have to condone it. And just because the Greek system is a tradition doesn’t mean it’s worth keeping; or at least keeping it as is. I will vouch there are a lot of business contacts and friendships made in the Greek system. These same contacts and friendships can be made elsewhere.
Oh, and most of what Nebraskan lists should be gotten rid of too. (sarcasm)
Geez! I thought that comment about getting married was just a joke about how well Nebraskan and Realist were getting along. For that Hibbsey was snarled at. I think that while there are other ways to make connections and do most, if not all of the positive that is done in the Greek system, historically it’s been a way to set a group apart; it’s about exclusivity. My college banned the Greeks 30 years ago but they’re probably back. The popularity seems to wax and wane. But the bigger issue is how to make children (and at my age an 18 y.o. looks like a child no matter what the law says) to understand their vulnerbility – be it drinking, speeding, unprotected sex or whatever other reckless activity they may engage in. If we come up with an answer we’ll all be in Stockholm next year.