Caveat Emptor… You are so full of it. There are so many (millions) policyholders that have held the same policy from the same insurance company for at least a decade. Are you suggesting that because an insurance company decided to “write into a policy” to only use Non-OEM parts that this is the same indemnification that was sold when the consumer originally bought their first policy 10 years ago.
As far as your suggestion regarding shops not marking up OEM parts and using only non-OEM and salvage… you are either a communist or ignorant or both.
You couldn’t possibly be in the collision industry if you make a statement like that. IN FACT, YOU ARE SCUM for even impersonating a reputable collision shop owner by making such statements.
J Armstead (so you know who I am next time you want to speak of real insurance against loss or {indemnification}… “Fit, Function, Safety, and Value”)
You’re partly right. My AG is dumb as a post. As far as not understanding aftermarket parts, how they are made, what they are made from, where they are made, I understand probably more than most posters here. Having worked as a tooling engineer helps in that regard. The body shops I send my clients to understand that the contract requires them to make an effort to use quality replacement parts if they are avaialable, per state law. Whether you like the law or not, it is the law. The body shops I direct my clients to rarely if ever use QRP’s because they don’t like the fit. My company is OK with that. As to marking up QRP’s to a higher price? Claims audits claims, and that would show up there.
For a guy who starts a sentence ‘No offense….’ you certainly are capable of offending.
Fighting Saints, I respect your opinion regarding the quality or lack thereof for OEM, salvage as well as aftermarket parts. However, what you failed to mention is that the salvage or aftermarket parts have a tremendous amount of returns versus the OEM for various reasons (fit, quality, craftsmanship, etc…).
I have been told by many adjusters time and time again, “get the aftermarket (or salvage) part in and if it isn’t any good, then order an OEM and we will supplement it”.
What is wrong with that? I will tell you. First off, they usually will not pay to prefit an aftermaket part. Who wants to cut a fender in only to find it doesn’t fit properly? Secondly, now that the part is no good, you have to take more time out of your day to order an OEM part. This will then delay the repairs as you will now have to wait for the part. The customer may get upset by this. The shop will now be delayed in getting the vehicle out the door and thus resulting in delaying the start of another vehicle repair. Will the insurance pay for that? Not a chance. Have any of you ever had a vendor (aftermarket or salvage) refuse to sell you parts because you return too many parts? It has happened here.
So tell me again, why is using aftermarket parts or salvage parts the right thing to do? It isn’t, plain and simple. No one wins with aftermarket or salvage parts except those parts vendors and the insurance company, certainly not the repair facility or customer.
You have convinced me. I give up. I have to work for a living and so this is my last retort.
A/M parts are here to stay and you and all your personal accounts of what you have done and are going to do is not going to change a thing.
You can not provide true documentation that A/M are inferior to OEM. To my knowlege there have been only tow court cases. One was State Farm and it was reversed. Didn’t think I knew that did you!, and this one.
Now, the last time I looked the United States is a big place. At this rate, I will be dead and they will till be making A/M parts.
Now, I have to go and no need to respond because I am deleting you. Yea, I know how to do that smart ***!
You really do not want to meet me in person….Really!!!!
As an auto damage adjustor for the last ten years, I have been surprised to see the amount of subrogation that comes across my desk where aftermarket crash parts were used. My company’s policy is OEM and LKQ (used-OEM) ONLY on crash parts. We will write a/m for lights, belts, wipers etcm but never crash parts. The determination many years ago was that a/m parts don’t fit right, aren’t as safe and are not that cost effective once you put in the amount of times they are returned because they don’t fit and we wind up using LKQ anyway. And it is WAY easier to explain to our customers (First AND third party) that the 2002 Ford is going to get 2002 Ford made parts.
So take heart, there are still some decent companies out there. (At least I see decency at my lowly level!)
What do you guys do for a living? I have been reading your comments and I am really surprised
If you do not want use A/M parts, don’t do insurance related work. Just take in customer pay jobs.
As far as A/M not measuring up to OEM, I actually ordered A/M and OEM for the same vehicle. The shop owner, myself and the bodyman inspected both sets and found them to be equal in design and fit when used on the vehicle.
I have been in the auto business for over 30 years. I find very few shops complaining about the fit of A/M parts anymore. Now in the 80’s they were crap and I would not use them at my shop. But, the business has evolved just like any other business.
You guys might want to check where the steel is coming from the OEM manufactures are using. Pretty good bet it’s from oversea’s. What does that do to your quality rating theory.
Look, just because a judgement goes again’st one insurance company, doesn’t mean you guys are justified in your remarks.
The Laws of this country have been corrupted by the attorneys and judges to the point, they do not even understand them anymore.
Any insurance company stupid enough to put like, kind and quality is offering itself up for the BBQ of their life.
Here’s the verbage: “We will repair your vehicle, or we will total your vehicle.”
Sheet metal is there for looks. The safety items are the hidden rails and pillars behind this sheet metal.
You guys need to get a life! Later!
Thanks Hollywood and Ray for puntuating my position.
I own a body shop in Springfield IL. and I am the President of my State Association (AASPI). Mark Pierson happens to be a past President of the same association and operates out of Princeton IL. Mike Orton is in MO and also runs a consumer driven repair facility.
Do you really want to discuss this with me? Matters of law and policy? Really?
If so, go ahead and make with your true identities and locations right here and I’ll follow up with you in any venue you choose – and a few of my choosing.
If not – back to your caves boys – judging by the size of those clubs you brought with you, you’d be more comfy at home.
Caveman, man you have got no life, do you? You own your shop. I guess that makes you a top notch lawyer too.
What’s the name of this shop? I Gotchya Now!
The insurance companies are using and will continue to use A/M parts.
If you do not want use them, good for you.
But, don’t begin to think you and your associates are going to demand your way into their back pockets.
I really do not understand why you are on this website. Don’t you spread your lies on that bodyshop news magazine you put out to each other.
Can I ask what is with you and names?
I would also like to know your background in education, for your knowlege in law and policy.
Explain the sections of the “Law” and “Policy” you refer to Mr. Smooth!
I always like to learn something new.
The point Mr. Ebert was trying to make is this…we (the majority of us, I will give you at least that) in the auto repair industry know how to perform our job as we specialize in it…we don’t pretend to know how to do your job and to tell you how to do your job…stop telling us how to do ours! And by the way, we send back poor fitting aftermarket parts all the time which continually delays us as well as your customer.
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Caveat Emptor… You are so full of it. There are so many (millions) policyholders that have held the same policy from the same insurance company for at least a decade. Are you suggesting that because an insurance company decided to “write into a policy” to only use Non-OEM parts that this is the same indemnification that was sold when the consumer originally bought their first policy 10 years ago.
As far as your suggestion regarding shops not marking up OEM parts and using only non-OEM and salvage… you are either a communist or ignorant or both.
You couldn’t possibly be in the collision industry if you make a statement like that. IN FACT, YOU ARE SCUM for even impersonating a reputable collision shop owner by making such statements.
J Armstead (so you know who I am next time you want to speak of real insurance against loss or {indemnification}… “Fit, Function, Safety, and Value”)
You’re partly right. My AG is dumb as a post. As far as not understanding aftermarket parts, how they are made, what they are made from, where they are made, I understand probably more than most posters here. Having worked as a tooling engineer helps in that regard. The body shops I send my clients to understand that the contract requires them to make an effort to use quality replacement parts if they are avaialable, per state law. Whether you like the law or not, it is the law. The body shops I direct my clients to rarely if ever use QRP’s because they don’t like the fit. My company is OK with that. As to marking up QRP’s to a higher price? Claims audits claims, and that would show up there.
For a guy who starts a sentence ‘No offense….’ you certainly are capable of offending.
Fighting Saints, I respect your opinion regarding the quality or lack thereof for OEM, salvage as well as aftermarket parts. However, what you failed to mention is that the salvage or aftermarket parts have a tremendous amount of returns versus the OEM for various reasons (fit, quality, craftsmanship, etc…).
I have been told by many adjusters time and time again, “get the aftermarket (or salvage) part in and if it isn’t any good, then order an OEM and we will supplement it”.
What is wrong with that? I will tell you. First off, they usually will not pay to prefit an aftermaket part. Who wants to cut a fender in only to find it doesn’t fit properly? Secondly, now that the part is no good, you have to take more time out of your day to order an OEM part. This will then delay the repairs as you will now have to wait for the part. The customer may get upset by this. The shop will now be delayed in getting the vehicle out the door and thus resulting in delaying the start of another vehicle repair. Will the insurance pay for that? Not a chance. Have any of you ever had a vendor (aftermarket or salvage) refuse to sell you parts because you return too many parts? It has happened here.
So tell me again, why is using aftermarket parts or salvage parts the right thing to do? It isn’t, plain and simple. No one wins with aftermarket or salvage parts except those parts vendors and the insurance company, certainly not the repair facility or customer.
You have convinced me. I give up. I have to work for a living and so this is my last retort.
A/M parts are here to stay and you and all your personal accounts of what you have done and are going to do is not going to change a thing.
You can not provide true documentation that A/M are inferior to OEM. To my knowlege there have been only tow court cases. One was State Farm and it was reversed. Didn’t think I knew that did you!, and this one.
Now, the last time I looked the United States is a big place. At this rate, I will be dead and they will till be making A/M parts.
Now, I have to go and no need to respond because I am deleting you. Yea, I know how to do that smart ***!
You really do not want to meet me in person….Really!!!!
As an auto damage adjustor for the last ten years, I have been surprised to see the amount of subrogation that comes across my desk where aftermarket crash parts were used. My company’s policy is OEM and LKQ (used-OEM) ONLY on crash parts. We will write a/m for lights, belts, wipers etcm but never crash parts. The determination many years ago was that a/m parts don’t fit right, aren’t as safe and are not that cost effective once you put in the amount of times they are returned because they don’t fit and we wind up using LKQ anyway. And it is WAY easier to explain to our customers (First AND third party) that the 2002 Ford is going to get 2002 Ford made parts.
So take heart, there are still some decent companies out there. (At least I see decency at my lowly level!)
What do you guys do for a living? I have been reading your comments and I am really surprised
If you do not want use A/M parts, don’t do insurance related work. Just take in customer pay jobs.
As far as A/M not measuring up to OEM, I actually ordered A/M and OEM for the same vehicle. The shop owner, myself and the bodyman inspected both sets and found them to be equal in design and fit when used on the vehicle.
I have been in the auto business for over 30 years. I find very few shops complaining about the fit of A/M parts anymore. Now in the 80’s they were crap and I would not use them at my shop. But, the business has evolved just like any other business.
You guys might want to check where the steel is coming from the OEM manufactures are using. Pretty good bet it’s from oversea’s. What does that do to your quality rating theory.
Look, just because a judgement goes again’st one insurance company, doesn’t mean you guys are justified in your remarks.
The Laws of this country have been corrupted by the attorneys and judges to the point, they do not even understand them anymore.
Any insurance company stupid enough to put like, kind and quality is offering itself up for the BBQ of their life.
Here’s the verbage: “We will repair your vehicle, or we will total your vehicle.”
Sheet metal is there for looks. The safety items are the hidden rails and pillars behind this sheet metal.
You guys need to get a life! Later!
Well Said!!!
Ah! Enter the Cavemen! As though on cue.
Thanks Hollywood and Ray for puntuating my position.
I own a body shop in Springfield IL. and I am the President of my State Association (AASPI). Mark Pierson happens to be a past President of the same association and operates out of Princeton IL. Mike Orton is in MO and also runs a consumer driven repair facility.
Do you really want to discuss this with me? Matters of law and policy? Really?
If so, go ahead and make with your true identities and locations right here and I’ll follow up with you in any venue you choose – and a few of my choosing.
If not – back to your caves boys – judging by the size of those clubs you brought with you, you’d be more comfy at home.
Caveman, man you have got no life, do you? You own your shop. I guess that makes you a top notch lawyer too.
What’s the name of this shop? I Gotchya Now!
The insurance companies are using and will continue to use A/M parts.
If you do not want use them, good for you.
But, don’t begin to think you and your associates are going to demand your way into their back pockets.
I really do not understand why you are on this website. Don’t you spread your lies on that bodyshop news magazine you put out to each other.
Can I ask what is with you and names?
I would also like to know your background in education, for your knowlege in law and policy.
Explain the sections of the “Law” and “Policy” you refer to Mr. Smooth!
I always like to learn something new.
The point Mr. Ebert was trying to make is this…we (the majority of us, I will give you at least that) in the auto repair industry know how to perform our job as we specialize in it…we don’t pretend to know how to do your job and to tell you how to do your job…stop telling us how to do ours! And by the way, we send back poor fitting aftermarket parts all the time which continually delays us as well as your customer.