Saying someone lied, which she did per witnesses, IS a statement of fact not an accusation. That charges (accusations) were of insurance fraud.
That goes along with SF\’s belief that fraud was being committed. Again The State Prosecutor brought offical ACCUSATIONS of couple.
Liberals quote liberals. That is why I dislike our evolving court system. People actually arguing over definition of IS.
I honestly do not know. But….my guess is that they are like many juries…lacking in common sense and wisdom…believing it is a lottery event with the hope that one day they might get there chance at this lottery event…they did not reason but used their feelings…they believe BIG business is evil and needs to be brought down…they might have been privy to previous actions of State Farm, which have no relevence to this case. Because if all past actions are relevent-Haven\’t all people lied at least once? If so then how could we EVER believe anyone!!!!!
If one looks at the evidence at face value, I believe that my guess is right on.
\”Frickleton [Attorney for Mr. Vail and Ms. Hampton] said State Farm and the insurance crime bureau relied on incomplete, hearsay evidence in seeking the fraud prosecution.\”
He also said award was right based on size of SF and earnings of same. Which goes against one of our strongest beliefs-THAT OF EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL. If I am rich or poor the same laws should be applied equally, otherwise we are headed to anarchy.
In a case like this, there is nothing but heresay unless a camera saw the act. Those charged with the crime say they did not do it. The witnesses reported what they heard. So of course there is only heresay!!!
That is so obvious, I didn\’t think to even discuss that. So the jury then based their opinion off of…..my guess(from previous response). Only evidence presented was dismissed by jury in favor of the lottery or to get back at big business.
That is why I hate and despise leftists values. They have been brainwashing the masses for decades.
Think for a minute about the billions and billions and billions of dollars wasted on insurance premiums year after year…and for what? To protect individuals and businesses from ludicrous awards such as this. Those premium dollars could be better spent in other productive areas. New jobs…higher pay…less lawyers…less lawyers…less lawyers with leftists leanings…less leftists leaning lawyers who become judges…less leftists leaning lawyers who become senators and congressman…less communism and more individualistic capitalism…more accountability…more self-reliance…more self-respect.
$8,000,000.00 that is a lot of money……………………………………………..
Equality means equal access to courts, equal treatment of all, and equal fines. Equal fines means that the size of company being sued etc. should have no bearing whatsoever in the size of fine. Just like speeding tickets same fine for all.
As far as workers comp, I could care less. If I have an accident, accident not on purpose, my problem not my employers or the state or anyone else. Why is the answer always through the government and through the courts. Accountability means just that.
That is what liberalism and socialism and communism and everything leftist has in mind and goes back to my comments about California.
Everyone says they are fiscally conservative, but few practice and apply this conservatism consistently in their personal lives.
A conservative, not a Republican-I could care less which party a person votes for, believes in self reliance, accountability for their own actions, family values, most likely in God-but not all conservatives. These beliefs lead me to want less government involvement in my personal and business life. It leads me to have a high regard for the United States of America-and in her moral superiority.
Those that rely on governments and courts live their lives waiting for the next handout. Waiting for someone else to support them, waiting for someone else to fix all their problems.
Your so called injured worker can go to any doctor under his health insurance to receive and pay for necessary medical care.
Your argument that he will not even get an aspirin only regards to repayment under a workers comp claim.
So he can get better, AND if he can PROVE injury was employers fault he or his health insurance co. will be reimbursed, BUT only if the care received was necessary. So if he got a nose job at the same time as cast for broken leg-then nose job would not be reimbursed.
WHAT THE &?3@ IS WRONG WITH THAT???????
You are acting as though employee is entitled to all sorts of money cause he had an accident. He needs to prove someone else at fault..so what! He needs to prove any care was necessary…so what! That is the real world with health insurance for any individual-care will not typically be reimbursed if it was not necessary!!!
You need to move to Canada Dude, cause you think people are entitled to everything!!!!!!!!!
Calif. Governor Picks Insurance Industry Lobbyist for Deputy Chief of Staff
December 15, 2005
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has chosen an insurance industry lobbyist to be his deputy chief of staff and senior advisor for policy development, a new position.Starting at the new year, Dan Dunmoyer will leave his post as president of the Personal Insurance Federation of California.
In his new position, Dunmoyer, a Republican, will serve under Susan Kennedy, a Democrat who Schwarzenegger recently named his new chief of staff. Before joining the insurance federation in 1989, Dunmoyer worked for the Assembly Republican Caucus, where he developed legislative and public policy strategies.
Appellant Clayton Jackson, a [American Insurance Association (AIA)] lobbyist for the insurance industry, was charged with racketeering, conspiracy to commit mail fraud and money laundering, and mail fraud for his part in offering bribes to California state Senator Alan Robbins.
Jackson was convicted.
B. Racketeering Act 5 – Workers\’ Compensation
During the course of tape-recorded conversations, Jackson offered Robbins a $250,000 bribe. (Unknown to Jackson, Robbins had already been caught and had agreed to wear a wire in consideration for a reduced sentence.) Jackson promised this substantial reward if Robbins could bring under the jurisdiction of Robbins\’ friendly insurance committee an upcoming workers\’ compensation measure that would abolish the minimum rate law. Over a period of months, Jackson and Robbins discussed the outlines of the deal. Jackson promised to raise the money from the small insurance companies he represented, and who would be wiped out if the workers\’ compensation minimum rate law were abolished.
Jackson solicited donations from several insurance executives, telling them that the money would be used to establish a coalition of similar companies backed by a political action committee.
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Saying someone lied, which she did per witnesses, IS a statement of fact not an accusation. That charges (accusations) were of insurance fraud.
That goes along with SF\’s belief that fraud was being committed. Again The State Prosecutor brought offical ACCUSATIONS of couple.
Liberals quote liberals. That is why I dislike our evolving court system. People actually arguing over definition of IS.
Why did not one, but two full juries and at least the Judge in the Civil trial not believe, State Farm\’s view of the events?
Why did the Judge believe this was a \”malicious prosecution\” by State Farm and the insurance industry funded National Insurance Crime Bureau?
Have you read the two trial transcripts?
.
I honestly do not know. But….my guess is that they are like many juries…lacking in common sense and wisdom…believing it is a lottery event with the hope that one day they might get there chance at this lottery event…they did not reason but used their feelings…they believe BIG business is evil and needs to be brought down…they might have been privy to previous actions of State Farm, which have no relevence to this case. Because if all past actions are relevent-Haven\’t all people lied at least once? If so then how could we EVER believe anyone!!!!!
If one looks at the evidence at face value, I believe that my guess is right on.
\”Frickleton [Attorney for Mr. Vail and Ms. Hampton] said State Farm and the insurance crime bureau relied on incomplete, hearsay evidence in seeking the fraud prosecution.\”
http://www.kctv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=4208237
Mr. MUD,
Did State Farm and the NICB give these people the \”benifit of the doubt\” before \”seeking the fraud prosecution.\”
.
He also said award was right based on size of SF and earnings of same. Which goes against one of our strongest beliefs-THAT OF EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL. If I am rich or poor the same laws should be applied equally, otherwise we are headed to anarchy.
In a case like this, there is nothing but heresay unless a camera saw the act. Those charged with the crime say they did not do it. The witnesses reported what they heard. So of course there is only heresay!!!
That is so obvious, I didn\’t think to even discuss that. So the jury then based their opinion off of…..my guess(from previous response). Only evidence presented was dismissed by jury in favor of the lottery or to get back at big business.
That is why I hate and despise leftists values. They have been brainwashing the masses for decades.
Think for a minute about the billions and billions and billions of dollars wasted on insurance premiums year after year…and for what? To protect individuals and businesses from ludicrous awards such as this. Those premium dollars could be better spent in other productive areas. New jobs…higher pay…less lawyers…less lawyers…less lawyers with leftists leanings…less leftists leaning lawyers who become judges…less leftists leaning lawyers who become senators and congressman…less communism and more individualistic capitalism…more accountability…more self-reliance…more self-respect.
$8,000,000.00 that is a lot of money……………………………………………..
Equality means equal access to courts, equal treatment of all, and equal fines. Equal fines means that the size of company being sued etc. should have no bearing whatsoever in the size of fine. Just like speeding tickets same fine for all.
As far as workers comp, I could care less. If I have an accident, accident not on purpose, my problem not my employers or the state or anyone else. Why is the answer always through the government and through the courts. Accountability means just that.
That is what liberalism and socialism and communism and everything leftist has in mind and goes back to my comments about California.
Everyone says they are fiscally conservative, but few practice and apply this conservatism consistently in their personal lives.
A conservative, not a Republican-I could care less which party a person votes for, believes in self reliance, accountability for their own actions, family values, most likely in God-but not all conservatives. These beliefs lead me to want less government involvement in my personal and business life. It leads me to have a high regard for the United States of America-and in her moral superiority.
Those that rely on governments and courts live their lives waiting for the next handout. Waiting for someone else to support them, waiting for someone else to fix all their problems.
Your so called injured worker can go to any doctor under his health insurance to receive and pay for necessary medical care.
Your argument that he will not even get an aspirin only regards to repayment under a workers comp claim.
So he can get better, AND if he can PROVE injury was employers fault he or his health insurance co. will be reimbursed, BUT only if the care received was necessary. So if he got a nose job at the same time as cast for broken leg-then nose job would not be reimbursed.
WHAT THE &?3@ IS WRONG WITH THAT???????
You are acting as though employee is entitled to all sorts of money cause he had an accident. He needs to prove someone else at fault..so what! He needs to prove any care was necessary…so what! That is the real world with health insurance for any individual-care will not typically be reimbursed if it was not necessary!!!
You need to move to Canada Dude, cause you think people are entitled to everything!!!!!!!!!
Calif. Governor Picks Insurance Industry Lobbyist for Deputy Chief of Staff
December 15, 2005
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has chosen an insurance industry lobbyist to be his deputy chief of staff and senior advisor for policy development, a new position.Starting at the new year, Dan Dunmoyer will leave his post as president of the Personal Insurance Federation of California.
In his new position, Dunmoyer, a Republican, will serve under Susan Kennedy, a Democrat who Schwarzenegger recently named his new chief of staff. Before joining the insurance federation in 1989, Dunmoyer worked for the Assembly Republican Caucus, where he developed legislative and public policy strategies.
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/west/2005/12/15/63013.htm
=========================================
U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals
USA v JACKSON
http://laws.findlaw.com/9th/9410095.html
Appellant Clayton Jackson, a [American Insurance Association (AIA)] lobbyist for the insurance industry, was charged with racketeering, conspiracy to commit mail fraud and money laundering, and mail fraud for his part in offering bribes to California state Senator Alan Robbins.
Jackson was convicted.
B. Racketeering Act 5 – Workers\’ Compensation
During the course of tape-recorded conversations, Jackson offered Robbins a $250,000 bribe. (Unknown to Jackson, Robbins had already been caught and had agreed to wear a wire in consideration for a reduced sentence.) Jackson promised this substantial reward if Robbins could bring under the jurisdiction of Robbins\’ friendly insurance committee an upcoming workers\’ compensation measure that would abolish the minimum rate law. Over a period of months, Jackson and Robbins discussed the outlines of the deal. Jackson promised to raise the money from the small insurance companies he represented, and who would be wiped out if the workers\’ compensation minimum rate law were abolished.
Jackson solicited donations from several insurance executives, telling them that the money would be used to establish a coalition of similar companies backed by a political action committee.
I could care less.
As far as I am concerned California is Red China