Response to “just to clarify” – the mandated credits tied to mitigation efforts are claimed by State Farm to be overstated, and not yet adequately tested in the real world. Should the credit be 10% or 20%? Nobody knows for sure. State Farm claims the OIR overstated the value of mitigation efforts and thus drastically reduced the premium coming in the door. If their right, the rates are now actuarially unsound.
I have no idea who is right here, but in view of the fact that Citizen’s rates are known to be inadequate, and the reinsurance pool is also known to be inadequate, I tend to believe State Farm a bit nore than I do the OIR.
Also, if these increased costs drive up the value of the property to be replaced, it seems logical that the cost to replace would go up, regardless of the slight of hand actuarial work of the OIR.
It’s almost unbelievable what is happening here. Florida has a real crisis on their hands with potential hurricane frequency and severity. The current administration decides to politicize the issue and blame it on big business. Small thinkers like Ed buy into that rhetoric as fact, making the public even more distrustful of insurance carriers. Hello!!!! If the political rhetoric was correct, the companies would be lining up in droves to write new business in your state! Doesn’t the fact that MOST insurance companies won’t touch your state suggest to you the crisis is real and not political? Ed…for crying out loud…don’t blame State Farm. Show up at your Governor’s front door step and chew HIS butt out.
Your knowledge of the insurance industry is negligible. Your knowledge of pretty much anything you post about is non-existant. I object to your constant bashing of the industry because you don’t have a clue. I deal at the home office level with the FL Insurance Department and everything bad that is said about them is true. They simply don’t care about facts any more than you do. I hope some day the people of Florida recognize the damage being done to their insurance market by these idiots. Once again, if a company isn’t making money in a line, which they aren’t regardless of what urban legends you subscribe to, they should stop providing that product. Basic economics. Oh, I’m sorry, they didn’t study that in the 3rd grade so you might not understand. I haven’t been genuinely insulting in my posts the way you deserve, so back off.
The thing that I think you and I are in disagreement on is Ins Co coming in and saying they make no profit,I respectfully disagree with triple and quadruple digit figure incomes being distributed throughout management!
I have heard no specifics from you except that increases in premiums are a necessity for companies to stay a float.
This is certainly a fact but not in increments that are being requested. I think the Fl Ins Dept has cahoenas for standing up to the status quo.No other state other than California,NY,Wv and now Fl have really challenged the industry as a whole which I applaud!I also agree with you that what you pay for insurance in Fl you do not get the best bang for your buck.The policy coverages are so low in $$ that it’s insane.IF you want good insurance in Fl you WILL pay through the nose for that coverage.
Go try to buy insurance in any one of these states!Maybe you sell in one?
I assure you premium increases will continue weather a company does good or bad.I lived in states where the premium went up every year and yet it stated on the bill that I was receiving a discount for being a safe driver yada yada yada,no losses,no accidents,no liabilities but yet due to the risks assigned to the areas I’ve resided I went from paying $500 a year to over $1200 for auto and now I have half the coverage and twice the deductible,used to have 250 coll ded,no comp ded and full glass now have $500 coll,$500 comp and full glass.IF you are as familiar with the industry as you have indicated you realize the quote (door) of averages in auto TCPC.TCPC has stayed at or around 2500 to 3500 for years!The industry has all but took control of the autobody repair industry which is not far away and that is to control TCPC.I assume it will change at some point if the concierge program proves to be beneficial which it has!
When a dealership charges anywhere from $95 to $110 per hr labor and the autobody industry is enticed to accept $40 to $65 per hr for their trade and consistent knowledge upgrades this is O.K. to keep frompaying these guys what they are worth?
Homeowners same thing.Constant continuing education expenses and building codes changes cost a lot of money and yet some of these people are still working for what they were making 4 years ago.Is that the industries intent is to pay these people more or again is it to put more money in bonus’ in the pockets of the companies higher up employees?
The investment portion of the idustry is just that annuities etc.If they do poorly it’s because it is economy driven or again poor investments.
Just asking after all you said you were in H.O.and have all this information that contradicts my claims and I’m the dummy!
I enjoyed the dialog with you.Good evening!
1. SF does not operate as a true Mutual Company in Fl. 2. Most of the money their agents make is tied to auto. 3. Give them a 100% rate increase if they want it. It’s just their way of reducing their exposure without a hassel from the department. The public is now computer based, and will shop them to death. I’m an Ind. Agt., and am loving every minute of this, plus the extra money I’m making ontheir customers that are coming to me. With these hard times, the customer will go with PRICE… CUSTOMER..YEA FIGA…YEA CITIZENS..YEA ME…The Independent Agent is back..
You mean that the rates in Florida should be competive and that companies should be able to charge what they think is adequate? Hard to believe. Doesn’t seem fair to me. If their prices are too high people will to a lower priced carrier. Sounds like a communist plot to me.
Obviously SF wouldn’t be in business if it wasn’t trying to make money–it’s not a philanthropy! Some insurance insiders act like they insurance cos exist to provide a service, but that mentality is long gone. At this point, it’s the executives that run the company that get compensated for strong premium growth, combined ratio, net income, etc. That being said, Florida clearly is a high-risk state and it’s hard to believe that a rate increase isn’t warranted to some degree (ask a dozen actuaries and you’ll get a thousand answers on that point). Danny has it right–let them increase rates. Their service sucks anyway, they have a culture of denying claims, so let the word get out and see the people walk away in droves. The whole “Good Hands” motto is total BS. SF is like any other major corporation–looking at their top and bottom line (forget what insurance lines they actually write–they are in business to make money, period). Yes, it’s a mutual company (although maybe not in FL?), which is supposed to create incentives for prudent management, as insurereds are owners, but what voice do they have? None, except their pocketbooks. You want to make your voice heard by SF? Take your money elsewhere.
And lay off the ad hominem attacks, it’s just childish…
Pud, costs go up. Prices need to go up to cover costs. Simple economics. You want to blame insurance executives for this. Blame the climate. I’m not trying to be insulting, you just are not well informed on the cost of doing business. I can’t speak for your individual experience. I can speak for my company’s experience. A top notch company that can’t do a full book of business in Florida because of all the governmental nonsense. What they are doing is simply not going to work in the long run. They know it, I wish you did.
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Response to “just to clarify” – the mandated credits tied to mitigation efforts are claimed by State Farm to be overstated, and not yet adequately tested in the real world. Should the credit be 10% or 20%? Nobody knows for sure. State Farm claims the OIR overstated the value of mitigation efforts and thus drastically reduced the premium coming in the door. If their right, the rates are now actuarially unsound.
I have no idea who is right here, but in view of the fact that Citizen’s rates are known to be inadequate, and the reinsurance pool is also known to be inadequate, I tend to believe State Farm a bit nore than I do the OIR.
Also, if these increased costs drive up the value of the property to be replaced, it seems logical that the cost to replace would go up, regardless of the slight of hand actuarial work of the OIR.
It’s almost unbelievable what is happening here. Florida has a real crisis on their hands with potential hurricane frequency and severity. The current administration decides to politicize the issue and blame it on big business. Small thinkers like Ed buy into that rhetoric as fact, making the public even more distrustful of insurance carriers. Hello!!!! If the political rhetoric was correct, the companies would be lining up in droves to write new business in your state! Doesn’t the fact that MOST insurance companies won’t touch your state suggest to you the crisis is real and not political? Ed…for crying out loud…don’t blame State Farm. Show up at your Governor’s front door step and chew HIS butt out.
Your knowledge of the insurance industry is negligible. Your knowledge of pretty much anything you post about is non-existant. I object to your constant bashing of the industry because you don’t have a clue. I deal at the home office level with the FL Insurance Department and everything bad that is said about them is true. They simply don’t care about facts any more than you do. I hope some day the people of Florida recognize the damage being done to their insurance market by these idiots. Once again, if a company isn’t making money in a line, which they aren’t regardless of what urban legends you subscribe to, they should stop providing that product. Basic economics. Oh, I’m sorry, they didn’t study that in the 3rd grade so you might not understand. I haven’t been genuinely insulting in my posts the way you deserve, so back off.
The thing that I think you and I are in disagreement on is Ins Co coming in and saying they make no profit,I respectfully disagree with triple and quadruple digit figure incomes being distributed throughout management!
I have heard no specifics from you except that increases in premiums are a necessity for companies to stay a float.
This is certainly a fact but not in increments that are being requested. I think the Fl Ins Dept has cahoenas for standing up to the status quo.No other state other than California,NY,Wv and now Fl have really challenged the industry as a whole which I applaud!I also agree with you that what you pay for insurance in Fl you do not get the best bang for your buck.The policy coverages are so low in $$ that it’s insane.IF you want good insurance in Fl you WILL pay through the nose for that coverage.
Go try to buy insurance in any one of these states!Maybe you sell in one?
I assure you premium increases will continue weather a company does good or bad.I lived in states where the premium went up every year and yet it stated on the bill that I was receiving a discount for being a safe driver yada yada yada,no losses,no accidents,no liabilities but yet due to the risks assigned to the areas I’ve resided I went from paying $500 a year to over $1200 for auto and now I have half the coverage and twice the deductible,used to have 250 coll ded,no comp ded and full glass now have $500 coll,$500 comp and full glass.IF you are as familiar with the industry as you have indicated you realize the quote (door) of averages in auto TCPC.TCPC has stayed at or around 2500 to 3500 for years!The industry has all but took control of the autobody repair industry which is not far away and that is to control TCPC.I assume it will change at some point if the concierge program proves to be beneficial which it has!
When a dealership charges anywhere from $95 to $110 per hr labor and the autobody industry is enticed to accept $40 to $65 per hr for their trade and consistent knowledge upgrades this is O.K. to keep frompaying these guys what they are worth?
Homeowners same thing.Constant continuing education expenses and building codes changes cost a lot of money and yet some of these people are still working for what they were making 4 years ago.Is that the industries intent is to pay these people more or again is it to put more money in bonus’ in the pockets of the companies higher up employees?
The investment portion of the idustry is just that annuities etc.If they do poorly it’s because it is economy driven or again poor investments.
Just asking after all you said you were in H.O.and have all this information that contradicts my claims and I’m the dummy!
I enjoyed the dialog with you.Good evening!
Who asked this company to write 1 million policies and now bury Citizens with their garbage to the taxpaying population.
Nothing more than greedy executives and SF agents crying all the way to the bank.
Did you know the average income for a State Farm agent is $700,000.
Boo hoo!
1. SF does not operate as a true Mutual Company in Fl. 2. Most of the money their agents make is tied to auto. 3. Give them a 100% rate increase if they want it. It’s just their way of reducing their exposure without a hassel from the department. The public is now computer based, and will shop them to death. I’m an Ind. Agt., and am loving every minute of this, plus the extra money I’m making ontheir customers that are coming to me. With these hard times, the customer will go with PRICE… CUSTOMER..YEA FIGA…YEA CITIZENS..YEA ME…The Independent Agent is back..
You mean that the rates in Florida should be competive and that companies should be able to charge what they think is adequate? Hard to believe. Doesn’t seem fair to me. If their prices are too high people will to a lower priced carrier. Sounds like a communist plot to me.
Obviously SF wouldn’t be in business if it wasn’t trying to make money–it’s not a philanthropy! Some insurance insiders act like they insurance cos exist to provide a service, but that mentality is long gone. At this point, it’s the executives that run the company that get compensated for strong premium growth, combined ratio, net income, etc. That being said, Florida clearly is a high-risk state and it’s hard to believe that a rate increase isn’t warranted to some degree (ask a dozen actuaries and you’ll get a thousand answers on that point). Danny has it right–let them increase rates. Their service sucks anyway, they have a culture of denying claims, so let the word get out and see the people walk away in droves. The whole “Good Hands” motto is total BS. SF is like any other major corporation–looking at their top and bottom line (forget what insurance lines they actually write–they are in business to make money, period). Yes, it’s a mutual company (although maybe not in FL?), which is supposed to create incentives for prudent management, as insurereds are owners, but what voice do they have? None, except their pocketbooks. You want to make your voice heard by SF? Take your money elsewhere.
And lay off the ad hominem attacks, it’s just childish…
Pud, costs go up. Prices need to go up to cover costs. Simple economics. You want to blame insurance executives for this. Blame the climate. I’m not trying to be insulting, you just are not well informed on the cost of doing business. I can’t speak for your individual experience. I can speak for my company’s experience. A top notch company that can’t do a full book of business in Florida because of all the governmental nonsense. What they are doing is simply not going to work in the long run. They know it, I wish you did.