engineering decisions. ‘Yet the report paints a picture of the corps failing to employ the best available science on the strength of storms and the height of surge, often because of political and financial obstacles from Congress and local officials, as well as from industrial and environmental lobbies.’
We don’t employ the best available science because our system requires satisfying numerous different special interest groups, including environmentalists. But engineers know its just a matter of time until the chickens come home to roost. They also know that anything made by a man is imperfect by definition, and will fail at some time. Maybe next year, maybe a hundred years, but it will fail.
Too much time and money are spent on studies to see if a project will work, by the time they figure out it will work, the cost of the project has tripled and they have to do another study!
Ad – I always appreciate what you have to say….and I completely agree. The blame game is old. We should be focusing on getting this fixed and moving forward.
i agree with you. i think we should form a committee and launch an in depth study to ascertain whether your comment is in keeping with the high standards set by this august body of readers.
Is that possibe in LA. The local board that was given millions and millions of our tax dollars over a span of years spent the money on everything but the levees. If we give them millions more they will do the same thing.
As “Ad” said, the time for the blame game is over. If we had to sit down and point a finger at every governmental body that had a finger in the levees, we’d need to have ten hands.
The question is can the levees actually be fixed and if so, what level of storm surge should they be able to handle.
My guess is that the levee system can not be fixed.
City and state government want the levee’s fixed, but they don’t want to loss the deep channel access which many engineers seem to think added to the breaches. Lossing the deep channel would make the port of New Orleans all but useless which would have too much of an economic impact.
Another acknowledged problem is that the delta which protected the city as much as the levees did, is disappearing. The reason… once again economics. Keeping the Mississippi open for river traffic requires that the flow be regulated. This regulated flow has the river flowing slower and allows the sediment that built the delta to settle out of the river.
I guess bottom line, I see this same disaster happening again. Maybe not this year or next, but within my lifetime I see New Orleans being underware again… sorry.
One has to question the logic and sensibility of developing New Orleans in the first place. It was below sea level to begin with and has been sinking each year. Relying on a series of earthen levees and a system of pumps to keep the ocean out is tenuous at best. It’s location at the twelve o’clock position in the Gulf makes it a prime target for hurrican landfall. Aside from drilling rigs and the Port, the city has never been a significan center of business. Not one of the top 100 companies has a home office there. It’s tourism draw was the French Quarter. Nothing significant has bee added in recent years. No businesses are going to relocate there now. There are no jobs, and a high percentage of the population has no marketable skills.
Why would anyone, except the locals, think it’s worth investing billions of dollars to try again to protect this city from the inevitable? There’s no educational value in the second kick of a mule. It there is to be any reconstruction, it should be somewhere else in LA that isn’t as vulnerable.
The people that made those decisions in the most part are still in place; at the Sewerage and Water Board, at the Corps of Engineers New Orleans, at the engineering companies, and the same type of governance; not withstanding the new levee boards. You need to change these decision points before you can have change or recover from Katrina.
New Orleans has a societal problem when it comes to maintenance. Maintenance never has priority. Years before the levees broke there were signs that there were a problems. There are problems at present that are known that are not being addressed with the levee system. That remain unsolved. Check the street in front of drainage station #4 when it is pumping. It creates boils that are known and have not been addressed.
New Orleans has problems that are deeper than design and maintenance. It is the “Position of Its Head”.
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engineering decisions. ‘Yet the report paints a picture of the corps failing to employ the best available science on the strength of storms and the height of surge, often because of political and financial obstacles from Congress and local officials, as well as from industrial and environmental lobbies.’
We don’t employ the best available science because our system requires satisfying numerous different special interest groups, including environmentalists. But engineers know its just a matter of time until the chickens come home to roost. They also know that anything made by a man is imperfect by definition, and will fail at some time. Maybe next year, maybe a hundred years, but it will fail.
Too much time and money are spent on studies to see if a project will work, by the time they figure out it will work, the cost of the project has tripled and they have to do another study!
Ad – I always appreciate what you have to say….and I completely agree. The blame game is old. We should be focusing on getting this fixed and moving forward.
i agree with you. i think we should form a committee and launch an in depth study to ascertain whether your comment is in keeping with the high standards set by this august body of readers.
Is that possibe in LA. The local board that was given millions and millions of our tax dollars over a span of years spent the money on everything but the levees. If we give them millions more they will do the same thing.
Danny, I will have to give that question some thought. Tomorrow…
As “Ad” said, the time for the blame game is over. If we had to sit down and point a finger at every governmental body that had a finger in the levees, we’d need to have ten hands.
The question is can the levees actually be fixed and if so, what level of storm surge should they be able to handle.
My guess is that the levee system can not be fixed.
City and state government want the levee’s fixed, but they don’t want to loss the deep channel access which many engineers seem to think added to the breaches. Lossing the deep channel would make the port of New Orleans all but useless which would have too much of an economic impact.
Another acknowledged problem is that the delta which protected the city as much as the levees did, is disappearing. The reason… once again economics. Keeping the Mississippi open for river traffic requires that the flow be regulated. This regulated flow has the river flowing slower and allows the sediment that built the delta to settle out of the river.
I guess bottom line, I see this same disaster happening again. Maybe not this year or next, but within my lifetime I see New Orleans being underware again… sorry.
One has to question the logic and sensibility of developing New Orleans in the first place. It was below sea level to begin with and has been sinking each year. Relying on a series of earthen levees and a system of pumps to keep the ocean out is tenuous at best. It’s location at the twelve o’clock position in the Gulf makes it a prime target for hurrican landfall. Aside from drilling rigs and the Port, the city has never been a significan center of business. Not one of the top 100 companies has a home office there. It’s tourism draw was the French Quarter. Nothing significant has bee added in recent years. No businesses are going to relocate there now. There are no jobs, and a high percentage of the population has no marketable skills.
Why would anyone, except the locals, think it’s worth investing billions of dollars to try again to protect this city from the inevitable? There’s no educational value in the second kick of a mule. It there is to be any reconstruction, it should be somewhere else in LA that isn’t as vulnerable.
Fantastic post ad, simply fantastic. Andrew, I truly hope your post was tongue in cheek.
The people that made those decisions in the most part are still in place; at the Sewerage and Water Board, at the Corps of Engineers New Orleans, at the engineering companies, and the same type of governance; not withstanding the new levee boards. You need to change these decision points before you can have change or recover from Katrina.
New Orleans has a societal problem when it comes to maintenance. Maintenance never has priority. Years before the levees broke there were signs that there were a problems. There are problems at present that are known that are not being addressed with the levee system. That remain unsolved. Check the street in front of drainage station #4 when it is pumping. It creates boils that are known and have not been addressed.
New Orleans has problems that are deeper than design and maintenance. It is the “Position of Its Head”.
Keep my real name confidential