John R. What’s that saying: “He who forgets history, is doomed to repeat it”. One MUST HAVE rear-view mirrors. It’s about warnings; and, experiences that have played out in the worst possible manner to a whole lot of folks, IN THE PAST!
SAVAGERY IS AN ESSENTIAL PART OF WAR. It happens everyday in our world. If there is a bright spot in your thinking…we can go on living in spite of the SAVAGERY and look forward, as you say, to life. In this case, the Insurers acted no different from our American Insurers: Must have proof that the insured person “did in fact” perish. No death certificate, no proof. People have been electricuted based on circumstantial evidence. Based on the SAVAGERY OF WWWII IN GERMANY, I think justice was satisfied with extreme circumstantial evidence here, too. Onward with this settlement.
tonto….agree that this needs to be put to rest. Also agree that we need to mindful of history, but not continue to live it. I think John R. raises some valid points. With all due respect to the Jewish community, they seem to dwell and focus on the past. What recent issues have they been as proactive with? Hopefully, this settlement will stop the whining that’s been the focal point of some peoples lives for the past 60 years. I for one am tired about hearing about the holocaust and insurance claims 60 years after the incident. It was the same song and dance with the famous Nazi hunters…….old men who took decades to find a few.
I’ve been obsessed with this subject (WWII and the Holocaust) for pretty much my entire adult life. I’m not saying that makes me an authority, but I feel very empathetic to what happened, not just to the Jews, but to EVERYONE (Romas, homosexuals, etc…) during that time.
But there is a part of me that disagrees with reparations, because where does it stop? i bet a whole lot of people in this world can trace their ancestry back to a time when they were being mistreated, stolen from, etc….
i firmly agree that we learn from our past, and we need to teach our children what this world has gone through, speaking the truth, in my opinion, is worth more than someone handing me a couple thousand dollars from an insurance policy from 1933.
For some people whose love ones were victims of war, it is very difficult to just get over it. Especially in the manner in which they met their deaths. Imagine either Melissa or Nebraskan in a concentration camp, emaciated, and then thrown into a heap of dead bodies, naked, filmed for the world to see. In their final seconds of life as they gasp for their last breaths of air, would they be thinking that someone must extract an ounce of justice…even if it meant collecting on their life policies. Think about it. “Row, row, row, row, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream!” Yes, let’s move on.
Tonto – do you really believe either Melissa nor myself doesn’t realize that? I can’t speak on behalf of Melissa, but i’ve seen that footage, numerous times, i go out of my way to watch movies, documentaries, etc….that have anything to do with the subject.
Melissa and I aren’t evil for what we are saying.
but where does it stop? personally, i think every black person in america could seek reparation…look at everything that group went through? all the work they did and the way they were tortured and all without pay.
any hey, what about native americans? look at all the money the white man has made off of property? why doesn’t, oh about 100% of that go to the Natives who originally had the land? (same thing in Austrailia).
what about all of the africans who work in horrible conditions to find diamonds who sell them to big companies for nothing and then watch the big companies get richer and richer?
better yet, let’s say for arguments sake you are for the jews having a homeland, how much are you going to pay all of the Palestinians to move someplace else?
See, it can go on forever and ever. but at some point, we, as a people, need to take the past and not let it repeat itself. we need to clean up current situations and move forward while educating people about the past.
for the love of god, do you think genocide has stopped since WWII? NO! but lets stop and pay those people and forget the people who are currently being slaughtered.
Nebraskan – great posts. Tonto should could his head in the sand where it belongs. That crap has gone on long enough. Move on and get over it. Many, many people were affected by this loss and many us lost loved ones from WWII and moved to the US to have better lives. It’s not that we are forgetting or ignoring the past, it’s just that this insurance crap and entitlement seeking is disgusting.
If we (Americans) live in a Law & Order country and abide by THE WRITTEN LAWS which allow for compensation as a result of atrocious acts aqainst humankind, then the Native Americans, Japanese Americans, Mexican Americans in the Southwest, should bring forth such legal actions. The Jews are doing it; even built a Museum right smack in the center of Wash DC. Who pays — all those who benefited from the “taking” of rights, privileges, land, etc., from them. The Life Insurance Co’s in Europe “took” premiums from the Jews. It’s time to ante-up. Should we follow THE LAW? Quite a few say no. And as S.I. Hayakawa said about our American counterparts, “We stole it fair and square!”. Contrast that with what the Mexican priest Juarez said, “The way to peace is respect of others”. Let it be. It is against THE LAW to take it to the streets, otherwise we’d have the 1960’s and early 1970’s all over again. Trying to right past injustices is a rocky road especially for those for whom the LAW is inapplicable. Like deja vu all over again.
Tonto – I’m not going to lie, i don’t understand your post. i don’t think anyone said take it to the streets. but is that what you are saying? That if they don’t sue, it will be taken to the streets? and i’m sure nazi germans were abiding their laws at the time so i doubt they would say they felt they broke laws.
I highly, highly recommend to you to either read or watch “The Good German.” it is thought provoking and what i think is at the crux of this argument. who do you truly hold accountable for the atrocities of the world and how do you punish them….
(for example, we all know what is going on in Darfur, but no one is really going out of their way to stop it….aren’t we just as guilty as the murderers for sitting back and watching with our shoulders shrugged and hands in the air saying, “what can i do?”)
i can never give those people back what they lost. because i’m sure they would rather have family members back as opposed to money. (and truthfully, i think they deserve to have any riches that are rightfully theirs returned, but i sincerely have to ask, “where does it stop?”)
Nebraskan. Did your High School teachers ever say, “If there are two people left in the entire planet, at some point they’ll kill each other”. Do you ever wonder, how close we are to the “wild animal” kingdom? Look at a Lion’s pride, dogs, human gangs…how they seek territories, mark them off and establish their presence. As bad as our history may have been, we’ve set ourselves up as the “beacon” of the world (even though at times it seems that we are expediting our own demise) for which people from all over flock here. I prefer to help people in Darfur…dig water wells, build adobe homes, plant their fields for food, bring medicine, etc., instead of creating wars with the eye toward acquiring their mineral resources for profit. Iran is this country’s next target. Yet, we’ve no money for SCHIPS. Go figure and keep asking, “When will it all end?”. We can’t take it to the streets like in the ’60’s and 70’s because your picture will be snapped and published and then you won’t land a job. Do you want to change that? Not if you have anything to lose. Yet our young are losing their lives in other parts of the world. War seems inevitable. No sight of it ever ending. Not Civil Wars, WWI, WWII, Korea, ‘Nam, Iraq, Darfur, Afghanistan, Israel/Palestine, I–R–A–N just over the horizon, and so on. My High School teachers are being proven right. Such prophets!
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John R. What’s that saying: “He who forgets history, is doomed to repeat it”. One MUST HAVE rear-view mirrors. It’s about warnings; and, experiences that have played out in the worst possible manner to a whole lot of folks, IN THE PAST!
SAVAGERY IS AN ESSENTIAL PART OF WAR. It happens everyday in our world. If there is a bright spot in your thinking…we can go on living in spite of the SAVAGERY and look forward, as you say, to life. In this case, the Insurers acted no different from our American Insurers: Must have proof that the insured person “did in fact” perish. No death certificate, no proof. People have been electricuted based on circumstantial evidence. Based on the SAVAGERY OF WWWII IN GERMANY, I think justice was satisfied with extreme circumstantial evidence here, too. Onward with this settlement.
tonto….agree that this needs to be put to rest. Also agree that we need to mindful of history, but not continue to live it. I think John R. raises some valid points. With all due respect to the Jewish community, they seem to dwell and focus on the past. What recent issues have they been as proactive with? Hopefully, this settlement will stop the whining that’s been the focal point of some peoples lives for the past 60 years. I for one am tired about hearing about the holocaust and insurance claims 60 years after the incident. It was the same song and dance with the famous Nazi hunters…….old men who took decades to find a few.
I’ve been obsessed with this subject (WWII and the Holocaust) for pretty much my entire adult life. I’m not saying that makes me an authority, but I feel very empathetic to what happened, not just to the Jews, but to EVERYONE (Romas, homosexuals, etc…) during that time.
But there is a part of me that disagrees with reparations, because where does it stop? i bet a whole lot of people in this world can trace their ancestry back to a time when they were being mistreated, stolen from, etc….
i firmly agree that we learn from our past, and we need to teach our children what this world has gone through, speaking the truth, in my opinion, is worth more than someone handing me a couple thousand dollars from an insurance policy from 1933.
Nebraskan…….well said.
For some people whose love ones were victims of war, it is very difficult to just get over it. Especially in the manner in which they met their deaths. Imagine either Melissa or Nebraskan in a concentration camp, emaciated, and then thrown into a heap of dead bodies, naked, filmed for the world to see. In their final seconds of life as they gasp for their last breaths of air, would they be thinking that someone must extract an ounce of justice…even if it meant collecting on their life policies. Think about it. “Row, row, row, row, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream!” Yes, let’s move on.
Tonto – do you really believe either Melissa nor myself doesn’t realize that? I can’t speak on behalf of Melissa, but i’ve seen that footage, numerous times, i go out of my way to watch movies, documentaries, etc….that have anything to do with the subject.
Melissa and I aren’t evil for what we are saying.
but where does it stop? personally, i think every black person in america could seek reparation…look at everything that group went through? all the work they did and the way they were tortured and all without pay.
any hey, what about native americans? look at all the money the white man has made off of property? why doesn’t, oh about 100% of that go to the Natives who originally had the land? (same thing in Austrailia).
what about all of the africans who work in horrible conditions to find diamonds who sell them to big companies for nothing and then watch the big companies get richer and richer?
better yet, let’s say for arguments sake you are for the jews having a homeland, how much are you going to pay all of the Palestinians to move someplace else?
See, it can go on forever and ever. but at some point, we, as a people, need to take the past and not let it repeat itself. we need to clean up current situations and move forward while educating people about the past.
for the love of god, do you think genocide has stopped since WWII? NO! but lets stop and pay those people and forget the people who are currently being slaughtered.
yeah, you’re right, i’m a little clueless.
Nebraskan – great posts. Tonto should could his head in the sand where it belongs. That crap has gone on long enough. Move on and get over it. Many, many people were affected by this loss and many us lost loved ones from WWII and moved to the US to have better lives. It’s not that we are forgetting or ignoring the past, it’s just that this insurance crap and entitlement seeking is disgusting.
If we (Americans) live in a Law & Order country and abide by THE WRITTEN LAWS which allow for compensation as a result of atrocious acts aqainst humankind, then the Native Americans, Japanese Americans, Mexican Americans in the Southwest, should bring forth such legal actions. The Jews are doing it; even built a Museum right smack in the center of Wash DC. Who pays — all those who benefited from the “taking” of rights, privileges, land, etc., from them. The Life Insurance Co’s in Europe “took” premiums from the Jews. It’s time to ante-up. Should we follow THE LAW? Quite a few say no. And as S.I. Hayakawa said about our American counterparts, “We stole it fair and square!”. Contrast that with what the Mexican priest Juarez said, “The way to peace is respect of others”. Let it be. It is against THE LAW to take it to the streets, otherwise we’d have the 1960’s and early 1970’s all over again. Trying to right past injustices is a rocky road especially for those for whom the LAW is inapplicable. Like deja vu all over again.
Tonto – I’m not going to lie, i don’t understand your post. i don’t think anyone said take it to the streets. but is that what you are saying? That if they don’t sue, it will be taken to the streets? and i’m sure nazi germans were abiding their laws at the time so i doubt they would say they felt they broke laws.
I highly, highly recommend to you to either read or watch “The Good German.” it is thought provoking and what i think is at the crux of this argument. who do you truly hold accountable for the atrocities of the world and how do you punish them….
(for example, we all know what is going on in Darfur, but no one is really going out of their way to stop it….aren’t we just as guilty as the murderers for sitting back and watching with our shoulders shrugged and hands in the air saying, “what can i do?”)
i can never give those people back what they lost. because i’m sure they would rather have family members back as opposed to money. (and truthfully, i think they deserve to have any riches that are rightfully theirs returned, but i sincerely have to ask, “where does it stop?”)
Nebraskan. Did your High School teachers ever say, “If there are two people left in the entire planet, at some point they’ll kill each other”. Do you ever wonder, how close we are to the “wild animal” kingdom? Look at a Lion’s pride, dogs, human gangs…how they seek territories, mark them off and establish their presence. As bad as our history may have been, we’ve set ourselves up as the “beacon” of the world (even though at times it seems that we are expediting our own demise) for which people from all over flock here. I prefer to help people in Darfur…dig water wells, build adobe homes, plant their fields for food, bring medicine, etc., instead of creating wars with the eye toward acquiring their mineral resources for profit. Iran is this country’s next target. Yet, we’ve no money for SCHIPS. Go figure and keep asking, “When will it all end?”. We can’t take it to the streets like in the ’60’s and 70’s because your picture will be snapped and published and then you won’t land a job. Do you want to change that? Not if you have anything to lose. Yet our young are losing their lives in other parts of the world. War seems inevitable. No sight of it ever ending. Not Civil Wars, WWI, WWII, Korea, ‘Nam, Iraq, Darfur, Afghanistan, Israel/Palestine, I–R–A–N just over the horizon, and so on. My High School teachers are being proven right. Such prophets!