You guys are right. I thought it was funny when I was posting, but after re-reading I started getting PO’d again.
To me the two biggest things wrong with society today is that people believe they are somehow entitled to something/everything and they do not want to take responsibilty for their own decisions/actions. It is always someone else’s fault and they want someone to bail them out.
No doubt there are some shady lenders/mortgage brokers out there, but even they did not hold a gun on these people and make them take this easy money.
you are right that no one held a gun to these peoples head but we all aspire to the american dream and when everyone keeps telling you there is no risk and the property will appreciate 10 percent per year, the vulnerable can be lured by the siren song of easy money. my daughter and her husband started to buy a condo in 2005 at the peak of the boom for 475,000, no money down, as an investment and the realtor stated flatly they could sell it in two years for 600,000.(exploding growth area in upper middle class suburbia). i was able to talk them out of it using the basic rationale so eloquently written by ‘media mogul’ in todays post. that condo is still on the market for 325,000 in one of the highest forclosure areas in the country. even level headed, intelligent people can be lured in by fast talking con artists.
“i should also add this to my last post. the unscrupulous real estate brokers have been under no restraint by our federal watch dog agencies. the sole purpose of government should be to control the predetary nature of the capitalist society. if left free to operate, big business would crush the middle class. look what happened to big oil, the energy companies, the savings and loan of the 80’s, and no the real estate market,all left free to do as they please-free market forces at work with no restraints..”
But, big business could not do what it does without the help of government. Monopolies and oligarchies are not the product of a free market but instead must have the armed might of government behind them (e.g., Halliburton, Archer Daniels Midland, etc., etc.). Even if “we elect the right people” the nature of government (i.e., a group of men and women who do business backed by violence) will never change. Moral of the story: don’t look to government to solve any problems, only to create them and make them worse.
Moral of the story: don’t look to government to solve any problems, only to create them and make them worse.
so are you saying we should abolish the government and live in an anarchistic society ?
A truly free market will fix itself. The unscrupulous lenders and moronic borrowers will no longer be able to act the way they did….leaving the sensible customers for the well intentioned businesses.
“so are you saying we should abolish the government and live in an anarchistic society ?
A truly free market will fix itself. The unscrupulous lenders and moronic borrowers will no longer be able to act the way they did….leaving the sensible customers for the well intentioned businesses.”
To answer your first question: I’m advocating a voluntary society wherein all interaction between people is done without resorting to violence or the threat thereof. By definition, this would mean the elimination of the state (and I hope you understand that by “state” I don’t mean the “state of Missouri,” or the “state of California,” etc. but rather the more accurate definition: that group of men and women who claim and enforce a monopoly of violence over a given geographic area. In today’s world, this is synonymous with the word “government,” although it is possible to have voluntary governments, e.g., a homeowner’s association, etc.)
Secondly, your second paragraph appears to vindicate my earlier statements: that a truly free market can not exist in the presence of government because government personnel and those who control them (i.e., the ultra wealthy) will always, always, attempt to (and in most cases succeed) interfere in the markets to divert wealth and power to themselves and the only way they can do this is through “laws,” regulations, the “courts,” etc. That’s why the biggest supporters of regulations are very big businesses: because they have the resources to comply with them, while the small businesses do not and must either be absorbed by the big businesses or go out of business, thus leaving less competition for the big businesses.
think about that for a minute. You describe our current society as this heavy handed, oppressive, “backed by a monopoly of violence” system…and yet there are still people who will steal my car if I don’t lock it and have an alarm. If we have a “voluntary society” who is going to keep my car from getting stolen ? Who is going to keep the lead painted toys off the shelves ? Who is going to keep farmers from using dangerous pesticides and fertilizers on their crops ? Who is going to build and maintain the highway/rail/shipping infrastructure that keeps goods and services moving ……and who is going to pay for all that ? volunteers ?
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That is just too true to be a funny. The decisions that people make
What’s scary is that there are actually people out there that would really say those exact words and mean it.
Sad But True
You hit the nail on the head. Love your post
You guys are right. I thought it was funny when I was posting, but after re-reading I started getting PO’d again.
To me the two biggest things wrong with society today is that people believe they are somehow entitled to something/everything and they do not want to take responsibilty for their own decisions/actions. It is always someone else’s fault and they want someone to bail them out.
No doubt there are some shady lenders/mortgage brokers out there, but even they did not hold a gun on these people and make them take this easy money.
And if you don’t give me what I am entitled to, I’ll sue you!!!!
you are right that no one held a gun to these peoples head but we all aspire to the american dream and when everyone keeps telling you there is no risk and the property will appreciate 10 percent per year, the vulnerable can be lured by the siren song of easy money. my daughter and her husband started to buy a condo in 2005 at the peak of the boom for 475,000, no money down, as an investment and the realtor stated flatly they could sell it in two years for 600,000.(exploding growth area in upper middle class suburbia). i was able to talk them out of it using the basic rationale so eloquently written by ‘media mogul’ in todays post. that condo is still on the market for 325,000 in one of the highest forclosure areas in the country. even level headed, intelligent people can be lured in by fast talking con artists.
“i should also add this to my last post. the unscrupulous real estate brokers have been under no restraint by our federal watch dog agencies. the sole purpose of government should be to control the predetary nature of the capitalist society. if left free to operate, big business would crush the middle class. look what happened to big oil, the energy companies, the savings and loan of the 80’s, and no the real estate market,all left free to do as they please-free market forces at work with no restraints..”
But, big business could not do what it does without the help of government. Monopolies and oligarchies are not the product of a free market but instead must have the armed might of government behind them (e.g., Halliburton, Archer Daniels Midland, etc., etc.). Even if “we elect the right people” the nature of government (i.e., a group of men and women who do business backed by violence) will never change. Moral of the story: don’t look to government to solve any problems, only to create them and make them worse.
Moral of the story: don’t look to government to solve any problems, only to create them and make them worse.
so are you saying we should abolish the government and live in an anarchistic society ?
A truly free market will fix itself. The unscrupulous lenders and moronic borrowers will no longer be able to act the way they did….leaving the sensible customers for the well intentioned businesses.
“so are you saying we should abolish the government and live in an anarchistic society ?
A truly free market will fix itself. The unscrupulous lenders and moronic borrowers will no longer be able to act the way they did….leaving the sensible customers for the well intentioned businesses.”
To answer your first question: I’m advocating a voluntary society wherein all interaction between people is done without resorting to violence or the threat thereof. By definition, this would mean the elimination of the state (and I hope you understand that by “state” I don’t mean the “state of Missouri,” or the “state of California,” etc. but rather the more accurate definition: that group of men and women who claim and enforce a monopoly of violence over a given geographic area. In today’s world, this is synonymous with the word “government,” although it is possible to have voluntary governments, e.g., a homeowner’s association, etc.)
Secondly, your second paragraph appears to vindicate my earlier statements: that a truly free market can not exist in the presence of government because government personnel and those who control them (i.e., the ultra wealthy) will always, always, attempt to (and in most cases succeed) interfere in the markets to divert wealth and power to themselves and the only way they can do this is through “laws,” regulations, the “courts,” etc. That’s why the biggest supporters of regulations are very big businesses: because they have the resources to comply with them, while the small businesses do not and must either be absorbed by the big businesses or go out of business, thus leaving less competition for the big businesses.
a “voluntary society” ???
think about that for a minute. You describe our current society as this heavy handed, oppressive, “backed by a monopoly of violence” system…and yet there are still people who will steal my car if I don’t lock it and have an alarm. If we have a “voluntary society” who is going to keep my car from getting stolen ? Who is going to keep the lead painted toys off the shelves ? Who is going to keep farmers from using dangerous pesticides and fertilizers on their crops ? Who is going to build and maintain the highway/rail/shipping infrastructure that keeps goods and services moving ……and who is going to pay for all that ? volunteers ?