Thank you for your side of the discussion. I respect your opinion and I value it, too.
It is regrettable that we even HAVE to hold these discussions. While I do not want to put my morals or value systems onto anyone else, as a parent of two teens (one boy about to go to college, and a daughter halfway through high school), I do understand that in so many ways being a manager is similar to being a parent or a coach of their soccer teams in years past.
We have goals and objectives for kids just like our staff, and share in the rewards of proper development and growth.
I sincerely wish that magnanimity did not have to be legislated, and that sufficient opportunities existed for highly trained and qualified individuals working in their chosen fields.
But I do not think it would be right on any level to say \”Mr. Black Man, I put a different value on your work product because of the color of your skin\”, or the same to \”Mr. Non-Christian\”.
BTW I wish Rosie were not quite so \”large\” or so loud, and note she does not occupy a spot in my Pantheon. But the Dr. said I had to lose 15 pounds, so who am I to talk?
Over-legislation benefits no one. Neither does fighting for unrealistic ideals. Freedom to do what we want to do is great, until it impinges upon the freedom of another person. Are we free to discriminate? Are we all equal? What color is a zebra – white with black stripes, or black with white stripes? Would it matter if it were the other way around?
Peace and love, and the pursuit of happiness. Egalite, fraternite and liberte. However you say it, we all want to be treated fairly. It takes respect from both sides. Only when we realize that, will these discussions lose their vehemence.
You can\’t have a reasonable debate with someone who has never experienced discrimination. When I entered the workforce in 1970 the job listings were under the heading Male or Female with men being able to apply for professional jobs and women could be chamber maids and clerks. It was obvious that the higher paid jobs were only offered to men. Flash forward to 1981 when I decided to start my agency…no one wanted to give me an agency appointment because I was a female and I would get pregnant and not take the business serious. One man finally agreed to appointment me and we still have a great business relationship 26 years later. Equal pay for equal work should be mandatory…otherwise employers will continue to do whtat they do with undocument immigrants…less than minimum wage..no taxes withheld and sent to IRS.. Hmmm sounds like a good deal for the business owner…with the sanction of the Supreme Court… remember Clarence Thomas came from the EEOC!
*One man finally agreed to appointment me and we still have a great business relationship 26 years later. Equal pay for equal work should be mandatory…otherwise
Listen to yourself – did you get the govt to force someone to give you a chance or did you persuade someone on your own? The latter, right? So why do you want the govt to force \”equality\” on free people? You worked hard to get what you have. The govt didn\’t hand it to you. So why do you want the govt to empower the distaff portion of your competition?
\”Liberty, Equality, Fraternity,\” was the motto of the French Revolution, which was a blood-soaked exercize in raw govt power. You cannot demand that people be free then tell them that they must pay everyone the same whether they\’re worth it nor not. You can\’t guaranty equality of outcomes in a free society, you can only guaranty equality before the law. And you can\’t guaranty fraternity: \”Ok, everyone like one another!\” It\’s just so utopian that the French had to chop off thousands of heads to enforce it, then they gave up on it, then they trie it again, then they got Napolean.
People in power never want the government \”messing\” around with things because everything is fine for them. Nan makes a good point about people that have never been discriminated against. I always love to hear a white man *****ing because \”no one ever gave me anything\”, or \”I\’m the only one that you get to be prejudice against and it\’s okay\”.
It\’s easy to say this is a free country when you have the power and the money.
Willy, the appointment I finally did get was from a man who had a daughter with the same name as mine and she also had a daughter the same age as mine… he didn\’t do it based on my qualifications but he never regretted giving me a chance. I approached 19 companies and only ended up with 1 appointment but that is all a woman needs to get started! I also had to decline to sleep with THREE marketing reps in return for an appointment and I got up and left a restaurant after another rep kept putting his hand on my leg under the table… good luck to your daughters.. may they not be faced with those choices for employment.
Why don’t you amuse me and Willy and explain how we are in power. I am sure we would both love to read your nonsense.
I was ticked off at you when I first read it, but I think you should continue your life’s journey with your anger. It’s the best punishment you can get.
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Thank you for your side of the discussion. I respect your opinion and I value it, too.
It is regrettable that we even HAVE to hold these discussions. While I do not want to put my morals or value systems onto anyone else, as a parent of two teens (one boy about to go to college, and a daughter halfway through high school), I do understand that in so many ways being a manager is similar to being a parent or a coach of their soccer teams in years past.
We have goals and objectives for kids just like our staff, and share in the rewards of proper development and growth.
I sincerely wish that magnanimity did not have to be legislated, and that sufficient opportunities existed for highly trained and qualified individuals working in their chosen fields.
But I do not think it would be right on any level to say \”Mr. Black Man, I put a different value on your work product because of the color of your skin\”, or the same to \”Mr. Non-Christian\”.
BTW I wish Rosie were not quite so \”large\” or so loud, and note she does not occupy a spot in my Pantheon. But the Dr. said I had to lose 15 pounds, so who am I to talk?
Over-legislation benefits no one. Neither does fighting for unrealistic ideals. Freedom to do what we want to do is great, until it impinges upon the freedom of another person. Are we free to discriminate? Are we all equal? What color is a zebra – white with black stripes, or black with white stripes? Would it matter if it were the other way around?
Peace and love, and the pursuit of happiness. Egalite, fraternite and liberte. However you say it, we all want to be treated fairly. It takes respect from both sides. Only when we realize that, will these discussions lose their vehemence.
You can\’t have a reasonable debate with someone who has never experienced discrimination. When I entered the workforce in 1970 the job listings were under the heading Male or Female with men being able to apply for professional jobs and women could be chamber maids and clerks. It was obvious that the higher paid jobs were only offered to men. Flash forward to 1981 when I decided to start my agency…no one wanted to give me an agency appointment because I was a female and I would get pregnant and not take the business serious. One man finally agreed to appointment me and we still have a great business relationship 26 years later. Equal pay for equal work should be mandatory…otherwise employers will continue to do whtat they do with undocument immigrants…less than minimum wage..no taxes withheld and sent to IRS.. Hmmm sounds like a good deal for the business owner…with the sanction of the Supreme Court… remember Clarence Thomas came from the EEOC!
*One man finally agreed to appointment me and we still have a great business relationship 26 years later. Equal pay for equal work should be mandatory…otherwise
Listen to yourself – did you get the govt to force someone to give you a chance or did you persuade someone on your own? The latter, right? So why do you want the govt to force \”equality\” on free people? You worked hard to get what you have. The govt didn\’t hand it to you. So why do you want the govt to empower the distaff portion of your competition?
\”Liberty, Equality, Fraternity,\” was the motto of the French Revolution, which was a blood-soaked exercize in raw govt power. You cannot demand that people be free then tell them that they must pay everyone the same whether they\’re worth it nor not. You can\’t guaranty equality of outcomes in a free society, you can only guaranty equality before the law. And you can\’t guaranty fraternity: \”Ok, everyone like one another!\” It\’s just so utopian that the French had to chop off thousands of heads to enforce it, then they gave up on it, then they trie it again, then they got Napolean.
I prefer the American way, not the socialist way.
Willy and Ad,
People in power never want the government \”messing\” around with things because everything is fine for them. Nan makes a good point about people that have never been discriminated against. I always love to hear a white man *****ing because \”no one ever gave me anything\”, or \”I\’m the only one that you get to be prejudice against and it\’s okay\”.
It\’s easy to say this is a free country when you have the power and the money.
Willy, the appointment I finally did get was from a man who had a daughter with the same name as mine and she also had a daughter the same age as mine… he didn\’t do it based on my qualifications but he never regretted giving me a chance. I approached 19 companies and only ended up with 1 appointment but that is all a woman needs to get started! I also had to decline to sleep with THREE marketing reps in return for an appointment and I got up and left a restaurant after another rep kept putting his hand on my leg under the table… good luck to your daughters.. may they not be faced with those choices for employment.
“It’s easy to say this is a free country when you have the power and the money.”
So are you in favor of revolution, theft, or both?
Why don’t you amuse me and Willy and explain how we are in power. I am sure we would both love to read your nonsense.
I was ticked off at you when I first read it, but I think you should continue your life’s journey with your anger. It’s the best punishment you can get.