The biggest protest against \”Agent\” Contingencies has come from one of the biggest violators and abusers of this age old system; Plumeri from Willis. Just because his company acted inappropriately and participated in bid rigging schemes, and was subsequently fined $50MM, doesn\’t mean that rest of the industry is guilty. Its good to see that the most of the industry has agreed to go to full compensation disclosure of all product income and is now accepting contingencies. Elliot Spitzer was right in exposing Marsh,AON,Willis and the insurance carriers who were the abusers of a good system. The corrections, in terms of full income disclosures,are being made in our industry and it is time to move on. There is no reason to continue litigating and legislating this matter any further.
Mike
I hear you and can see your logic RNR, but consider the end result of allowing a Client to ask for one proposal with commission, one with an hourly rate, and one with a fee. How different do you think each would be from one another? Ask the Insurance Carriers to cut Profit-Sharing with Agents/Brokers and certainly that savings will go directly to the Clients right? Not on a Shareholders dime it won\’t. This is getting way away from the core subject, we\’re not here to debate what our industry should or shouldn\’t do. However, we are here to let RIMS know that their opinion on our industry\’s compensation methods crosses a line and furthermore means jacksquat to us or anyone else for that matter. When a 1000 member organization decides to aggresively spout off and criticize the payment practices and ethics of an entire Industry based on a handful of Brokers steering and colluding with a handful of Carriers(something which is separate from Contingent commissions and Profit-Sharing), knowing that this statement will bear little to no weight in our Industry and will certainly not result in a change in our Industry, I have to believe RIMS intention is more publicity and of a self-serving nature than constructive and respectful of what I do daily.
Again….WHO CARES as long as compensation is performance based.
It is funny. They ones complaining are the ones with ultimate control. If you don\’t like how Aon, Willis, Marsh or anyone does business…DON\”T CALL THEM!!! Believe me, if they don\’t like your business they won\’t write YOU. Free Enterprise is also free choices. If your superiors are overriding your recommendation then it is their problem.
I agree, if RM\’s are doing their job correctly, outside audits should be no threat. However, if they are keeping business with their buddy who sends them on a beach trip every year (oh, you know it happens), then I think they should be afraid of the findings.
Full disclosure is fine – as long as everyone is disclosing the income, perks, and free vacations.
Maybe the Independent Insurance Agents & Brokers of America and other Agent organizations should issue a statement that any Risk Manager earning over $50,000 regarless of their duties, their expertise, and the exposures they manage is getting paid too much? Or even a step further, that 70% of the Risk Managers out there that Agents and Brokers deal with could be replaced with a rock. Nah, we wouldn\’t do that. Why? Because it\’s not our place to issue written, publicized statements about another industries livelyhood and earnings! I would have loved to have been at that RIMS Board meeting…He guys what should we do today? I know, let\’s issue a BS statement that fully impacts another industries employees ability to feed themselves and their families! Yeah, beats trying to justify our own jobs to our employers for another year! Pathetic.
To you members of RIMS: Let\’s do it this way. Your broker/agent will meet with you, learn about your business and exposures, prepare an application, submit it to their carriers, evaluate the various proposals and then present them to you in a clear and professional manner for your to make a decision. Only from now he/she won\’t do on the \”chance\” that you will select their quote. Instead, the fee is $500 or $1,000 per hour spent by them and their staff. You pay even if you choose another broker/agent.
We are the only industry that gives you our expertise for free and does not prevent you from sharing that with your buddy agent that you award with the business.
If you want to control my income then you\’ll have to pay for my work whether you choose me or not.
I am an RM and am with you, but with a little different twist. You make $X on the deal you get (and deserve every penny)and nothing on the ones you miss. That is your incentive to improve and increase your closing ratios. Just like the retail store makes $X on an item and nothing on the \”browsers\”. You don\’t want to sound like you overcharge me so that you can afford to miss two others.
there were so many comments that this may have already been suggested and i didn\’t read them all. why not just raine our commissions and stop worrying about growth and loss ratio or anything else we have to do to earn the contengency. just collect up front.
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The biggest protest against \”Agent\” Contingencies has come from one of the biggest violators and abusers of this age old system; Plumeri from Willis. Just because his company acted inappropriately and participated in bid rigging schemes, and was subsequently fined $50MM, doesn\’t mean that rest of the industry is guilty. Its good to see that the most of the industry has agreed to go to full compensation disclosure of all product income and is now accepting contingencies. Elliot Spitzer was right in exposing Marsh,AON,Willis and the insurance carriers who were the abusers of a good system. The corrections, in terms of full income disclosures,are being made in our industry and it is time to move on. There is no reason to continue litigating and legislating this matter any further.
Mike
I hear you and can see your logic RNR, but consider the end result of allowing a Client to ask for one proposal with commission, one with an hourly rate, and one with a fee. How different do you think each would be from one another? Ask the Insurance Carriers to cut Profit-Sharing with Agents/Brokers and certainly that savings will go directly to the Clients right? Not on a Shareholders dime it won\’t. This is getting way away from the core subject, we\’re not here to debate what our industry should or shouldn\’t do. However, we are here to let RIMS know that their opinion on our industry\’s compensation methods crosses a line and furthermore means jacksquat to us or anyone else for that matter. When a 1000 member organization decides to aggresively spout off and criticize the payment practices and ethics of an entire Industry based on a handful of Brokers steering and colluding with a handful of Carriers(something which is separate from Contingent commissions and Profit-Sharing), knowing that this statement will bear little to no weight in our Industry and will certainly not result in a change in our Industry, I have to believe RIMS intention is more publicity and of a self-serving nature than constructive and respectful of what I do daily.
Again….WHO CARES as long as compensation is performance based.
It is funny. They ones complaining are the ones with ultimate control. If you don\’t like how Aon, Willis, Marsh or anyone does business…DON\”T CALL THEM!!! Believe me, if they don\’t like your business they won\’t write YOU. Free Enterprise is also free choices. If your superiors are overriding your recommendation then it is their problem.
Hey, RNR_Risk – see \”Semantics\”
What a unique perspective!
I agree, if RM\’s are doing their job correctly, outside audits should be no threat. However, if they are keeping business with their buddy who sends them on a beach trip every year (oh, you know it happens), then I think they should be afraid of the findings.
Full disclosure is fine – as long as everyone is disclosing the income, perks, and free vacations.
Maybe the Independent Insurance Agents & Brokers of America and other Agent organizations should issue a statement that any Risk Manager earning over $50,000 regarless of their duties, their expertise, and the exposures they manage is getting paid too much? Or even a step further, that 70% of the Risk Managers out there that Agents and Brokers deal with could be replaced with a rock. Nah, we wouldn\’t do that. Why? Because it\’s not our place to issue written, publicized statements about another industries livelyhood and earnings! I would have loved to have been at that RIMS Board meeting…He guys what should we do today? I know, let\’s issue a BS statement that fully impacts another industries employees ability to feed themselves and their families! Yeah, beats trying to justify our own jobs to our employers for another year! Pathetic.
Very wel said.The CEO\’s/CFO\’s will never NEVER let their pays or bonus\’ take a hit.
To you members of RIMS: Let\’s do it this way. Your broker/agent will meet with you, learn about your business and exposures, prepare an application, submit it to their carriers, evaluate the various proposals and then present them to you in a clear and professional manner for your to make a decision. Only from now he/she won\’t do on the \”chance\” that you will select their quote. Instead, the fee is $500 or $1,000 per hour spent by them and their staff. You pay even if you choose another broker/agent.
We are the only industry that gives you our expertise for free and does not prevent you from sharing that with your buddy agent that you award with the business.
If you want to control my income then you\’ll have to pay for my work whether you choose me or not.
I am an RM and am with you, but with a little different twist. You make $X on the deal you get (and deserve every penny)and nothing on the ones you miss. That is your incentive to improve and increase your closing ratios. Just like the retail store makes $X on an item and nothing on the \”browsers\”. You don\’t want to sound like you overcharge me so that you can afford to miss two others.
there were so many comments that this may have already been suggested and i didn\’t read them all. why not just raine our commissions and stop worrying about growth and loss ratio or anything else we have to do to earn the contengency. just collect up front.