That was exactly my point. The person who is talking about the passing lane, does they know? the passing lane is not known to those retarded and slow drivers. Try to understand the point before getting offended. You are probably one them slow driver going 10 miles below the speed limite on a \”passing lane\”. Believe me slow and retarded drivers cause the all accident in the world. That is the fact.
What is this \”study\” you are referring to? Punishing defensive drivers b/c everyone wants to go faster is not a solution. YOU also haven\’t addressed the fact that the reduction in fatalities is not b/c of increased speed limits but the result of the improvements in vehicle safety. If the safety of vehicles had stayed constant the number of fatalities would have skyrocketed. Going faster increases the severity of an accident and of the injuries suffered. I have never head of any legitimate studies that have stated otherwise.
Do you know what defensive driving is? Its people who choose to travel at a slower speed and take more precautions when driving in order to avoid accidents. Many people do not understand how to do this effectively.
Your points seem to squarely focus on \”stupid retard drivers going slowly\” or some variation of that. Stupid retard drivers going slowly get into less accidents than people who drive faster.
What my driving habits are is inconsequential. It is important to understand highway safety and the proper operation of a vehicle in traffic. Tail-gating is harmful. And increases accidents. If you are so late perhaps you should have left earlier. There needs to be more personal responsibility and less blaming the other guy for your mistakes or punishing those that follow the law.
Many states have a law when to block traffic in the passing lane is a ticketable offense. I have yet to meet a person that doesn\’t know this.
What we have here it seems is a case of those that exceed the speed limit blaming slower drivers for accidents that are more likely to be caused by speeding.
Mr. Duffman, defensive driving and speed are two different things. No matter how fast you are going, maintain a safe distance from the other cars and be ready to slow down at all times. Driving slow, by defenition is NOT defensive driving. Maybe you should take the class and stop confusing the two. You clearly lack an overall understadning of how to realistically bring safety to the roads. Your short sightedness is why things will never change, look at the statistics, are things working the way they are now?? Are you happy with the status quo? You have no understanding of basic human nature and the flow of traffic. Also, I have never once condoned speeding, just obey the basic speed limit as it is posted, and dont drive 55 in a 65 while oblivious to everyone around you! You my friend, should be retested until you gain the confidence to control an automobile at the proper speed limit. Also, google defensive driving in Europe, and learn why they have less problems over there. Hint, its not cause everyone drives slow, its being offensive enough to avoid the accident in the first place. Duffman, please, b4 your next response, RESEARCH THE SUBJECT
Ironically it was you that was using numerical values as indicative of driving slower. All I have ever maintained was that slower traffic (slower is a relative term of course) drives defensively far far far more often than faster drivers.
I\’m glad you realize that driving slowly doesn\’t always mean you are driving \”defensively\” or safely.
You seem to be getting upset for some reason. Your opinion that someone going in 45 in a 55 mph zone is a criminal to be punished is an extremely faulty concept. No researcher on highway safety would ever claim that going faster is safer. Not everyone drives the same speed nor should they be expected to.
European defensive driving is to flash headlights and possibly honk horns when passing. Just like here in the states they have passing lanes. Just like here in the states they can have minimum posted speeds.
The thing I probably disagree with you most about is that you want to create more laws to go after slower drivers when 1.) going faster increases the severity of an accident when there is one.
2.)there are already laws on the books ticketing slow drivers on highways.
3.)Traffic fatalities are only dropping as a result of safer cars not higher speed limits or better driving.
I did that google search on European defensive driving, european accident causes, european driving speeds, etc. And each and everyone of those searches yielded very similar results from sites such as the EU, the European public health alliance, Scottish government website, and even an Italian guide to safe vehicle operation on its highway system. ZERO–zero references to anything referring to slower drivers to being the cause of accidents. ALL–all of them referenced that faster speeds will cause more severe accidents.
For good measure, I thought I would also do a search on preventative driving habits. One site popped up saying that in order to avoid ROAD RAGE it is suggested that you at least drive within 10 mph below the speed limit. Out of 25 websites I visited this was the only one that referenced a minimum speed. And even then it was only for avoiding road rage.
It brings up and interesting question. Are you actually interested in what laws are on the books (which there are already laws pertaining to your problem which is perhaps the most perplexing thing about your objectionable demeanor; there are already laws in effect that encourage the flow of traffic) or are your comments attributable to a specific road rage you had while you were late to an important meeting or the like?
So now you are talking about road rage? And now you are talking about being late? Once again, if you drive 45 in a 55 on a busy one lane rd almost anywhere in a America you will have a line of 20 cars behind you. Are they all road ragers? Are they all late? Is anyone enforcing the laws that are on the books in regard to people like your self blocking traffic, no. Like I keep telling you, its about real world driving habits and traffic flow, 2 concepts which you refuse to grasp. You suggest that no researcher would suggest that going faster is safer, but do you suggest the speed limit be lowered? Where do we stop? 30 miles per hour? How come trains can go 80 miles per hour safely? Because there are no other slower trains in the way! You cant seem to get it in to your head that there are other things you can do to make the road ways safer besides slowing down. DO you really think you can take 95 percent of the cars on the road and make them drive 55 miles per hour on the expressway???? It cant be done, so you are therefore living in lala land with no real life solutions. You must be a retired beurocrat. And yes, that does piss me off, cause people like you stand in the way of progress.
It amuses me that you are projecting your frustration upon me. Not at any point have I made it personal but that\’s all that you seem to be capable of.
From the very beginning I have maintained a position that I can produce peer reviewed studies to back my position. It\’s not difficult for me to do so b/c they are everywhere. I asked for one–ONE from you and have received nothing. Only \”I say so\” type arguments. You asked me to do google searches and I did search for one hour. But until you can back up anything you are saying the problems you point to are simply encumbrances and not an arena where we need our government to be creating duplicate laws.
Many highways already have a minimum speed limit (often 40) where police officers can ticket slower drivers. There are already passing lanes for faster drivers and if a slower driver is in that lane impeding the flow of traffic they can be ticketed.
Its funny that you accuse me of being a bureacrat when it is you who is proposing duplicate laws for the government to enact, in other words a bureacratic intervention.
Enforcement is the job of police. The police already have the permission to ticket those that are driving slow enough to warrant a citation.
Many drivers that are aware of their driving habits and who realize that traffic is backing up behind them will pull over to the side of the road to let faster traffic pass. It is a sign of courtesy. Government cannot legislate courtesy. If education is your goal than I am with you, but if your goal is more bureacratic red tape and duplication of current laws then I\’m afraid that until you can produce me a concrete conclusion to a peer reviewed study that demonstrates that driving 10mph below the speed limit CAUSES accidents you are gonna have some difficulty promoting your viewpoint with anyone, let alone me.
Duffy, just go back and read my last email. Really read it, dont just repeat yourself over and over. The existing laws should be enforced, slower drivers who black traffic should be given tickets, and then evaluated for retesting, potentially losing their license. Welcome to the real world buddy, you cant drive forever, look at the statistics on older drivers if youve got so much time on your hands. And point to me the last time there was a study done on slow dirvers, never. My theory is that they lack the basic driving skills to handle a car at the posted speed limit.
Your intentions seem to change with every post. My arguments have stayed focused and constant.
Now you seem to be focusing on elderly drivers. Finally your European references have yielded a result–there is a maximum driving age in many European jurisdictions.
I am not an elderly driver but my understanding is that elderly drivers are allowed to keep their licenses for as long as they are able to be safe drivers.
Fortunately for your argument there have been documented incidents of elderly drivers causing accidents.
So now instead of regulating drivers going 10 mph below the speed limit you are talking about limiting the driving priveleges of elderly drivers. Such regulation is already being pursued in many jurisdictions but a standard policy nationally has yet to go into effect.
I am also curious if you have a specific requirement regarding elderly drivers that you consider would be effective. Simply an age limit? A specific level of driving expertise?
In what ways would you want to regulate the licensing in regards to elderly drivers?
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That was exactly my point. The person who is talking about the passing lane, does they know? the passing lane is not known to those retarded and slow drivers. Try to understand the point before getting offended. You are probably one them slow driver going 10 miles below the speed limite on a \”passing lane\”. Believe me slow and retarded drivers cause the all accident in the world. That is the fact.
What is this \”study\” you are referring to? Punishing defensive drivers b/c everyone wants to go faster is not a solution. YOU also haven\’t addressed the fact that the reduction in fatalities is not b/c of increased speed limits but the result of the improvements in vehicle safety. If the safety of vehicles had stayed constant the number of fatalities would have skyrocketed. Going faster increases the severity of an accident and of the injuries suffered. I have never head of any legitimate studies that have stated otherwise.
Do you know what defensive driving is? Its people who choose to travel at a slower speed and take more precautions when driving in order to avoid accidents. Many people do not understand how to do this effectively.
Your points seem to squarely focus on \”stupid retard drivers going slowly\” or some variation of that. Stupid retard drivers going slowly get into less accidents than people who drive faster.
What my driving habits are is inconsequential. It is important to understand highway safety and the proper operation of a vehicle in traffic. Tail-gating is harmful. And increases accidents. If you are so late perhaps you should have left earlier. There needs to be more personal responsibility and less blaming the other guy for your mistakes or punishing those that follow the law.
Many states have a law when to block traffic in the passing lane is a ticketable offense. I have yet to meet a person that doesn\’t know this.
What we have here it seems is a case of those that exceed the speed limit blaming slower drivers for accidents that are more likely to be caused by speeding.
Mr. Duffman, defensive driving and speed are two different things. No matter how fast you are going, maintain a safe distance from the other cars and be ready to slow down at all times. Driving slow, by defenition is NOT defensive driving. Maybe you should take the class and stop confusing the two. You clearly lack an overall understadning of how to realistically bring safety to the roads. Your short sightedness is why things will never change, look at the statistics, are things working the way they are now?? Are you happy with the status quo? You have no understanding of basic human nature and the flow of traffic. Also, I have never once condoned speeding, just obey the basic speed limit as it is posted, and dont drive 55 in a 65 while oblivious to everyone around you! You my friend, should be retested until you gain the confidence to control an automobile at the proper speed limit. Also, google defensive driving in Europe, and learn why they have less problems over there. Hint, its not cause everyone drives slow, its being offensive enough to avoid the accident in the first place. Duffman, please, b4 your next response, RESEARCH THE SUBJECT
Ironically it was you that was using numerical values as indicative of driving slower. All I have ever maintained was that slower traffic (slower is a relative term of course) drives defensively far far far more often than faster drivers.
I\’m glad you realize that driving slowly doesn\’t always mean you are driving \”defensively\” or safely.
You seem to be getting upset for some reason. Your opinion that someone going in 45 in a 55 mph zone is a criminal to be punished is an extremely faulty concept. No researcher on highway safety would ever claim that going faster is safer. Not everyone drives the same speed nor should they be expected to.
European defensive driving is to flash headlights and possibly honk horns when passing. Just like here in the states they have passing lanes. Just like here in the states they can have minimum posted speeds.
The thing I probably disagree with you most about is that you want to create more laws to go after slower drivers when 1.) going faster increases the severity of an accident when there is one.
2.)there are already laws on the books ticketing slow drivers on highways.
3.)Traffic fatalities are only dropping as a result of safer cars not higher speed limits or better driving.
I did that google search on European defensive driving, european accident causes, european driving speeds, etc. And each and everyone of those searches yielded very similar results from sites such as the EU, the European public health alliance, Scottish government website, and even an Italian guide to safe vehicle operation on its highway system. ZERO–zero references to anything referring to slower drivers to being the cause of accidents. ALL–all of them referenced that faster speeds will cause more severe accidents.
For good measure, I thought I would also do a search on preventative driving habits. One site popped up saying that in order to avoid ROAD RAGE it is suggested that you at least drive within 10 mph below the speed limit. Out of 25 websites I visited this was the only one that referenced a minimum speed. And even then it was only for avoiding road rage.
It brings up and interesting question. Are you actually interested in what laws are on the books (which there are already laws pertaining to your problem which is perhaps the most perplexing thing about your objectionable demeanor; there are already laws in effect that encourage the flow of traffic) or are your comments attributable to a specific road rage you had while you were late to an important meeting or the like?
So now you are talking about road rage? And now you are talking about being late? Once again, if you drive 45 in a 55 on a busy one lane rd almost anywhere in a America you will have a line of 20 cars behind you. Are they all road ragers? Are they all late? Is anyone enforcing the laws that are on the books in regard to people like your self blocking traffic, no. Like I keep telling you, its about real world driving habits and traffic flow, 2 concepts which you refuse to grasp. You suggest that no researcher would suggest that going faster is safer, but do you suggest the speed limit be lowered? Where do we stop? 30 miles per hour? How come trains can go 80 miles per hour safely? Because there are no other slower trains in the way! You cant seem to get it in to your head that there are other things you can do to make the road ways safer besides slowing down. DO you really think you can take 95 percent of the cars on the road and make them drive 55 miles per hour on the expressway???? It cant be done, so you are therefore living in lala land with no real life solutions. You must be a retired beurocrat. And yes, that does piss me off, cause people like you stand in the way of progress.
It amuses me that you are projecting your frustration upon me. Not at any point have I made it personal but that\’s all that you seem to be capable of.
From the very beginning I have maintained a position that I can produce peer reviewed studies to back my position. It\’s not difficult for me to do so b/c they are everywhere. I asked for one–ONE from you and have received nothing. Only \”I say so\” type arguments. You asked me to do google searches and I did search for one hour. But until you can back up anything you are saying the problems you point to are simply encumbrances and not an arena where we need our government to be creating duplicate laws.
Many highways already have a minimum speed limit (often 40) where police officers can ticket slower drivers. There are already passing lanes for faster drivers and if a slower driver is in that lane impeding the flow of traffic they can be ticketed.
Its funny that you accuse me of being a bureacrat when it is you who is proposing duplicate laws for the government to enact, in other words a bureacratic intervention.
Enforcement is the job of police. The police already have the permission to ticket those that are driving slow enough to warrant a citation.
Many drivers that are aware of their driving habits and who realize that traffic is backing up behind them will pull over to the side of the road to let faster traffic pass. It is a sign of courtesy. Government cannot legislate courtesy. If education is your goal than I am with you, but if your goal is more bureacratic red tape and duplication of current laws then I\’m afraid that until you can produce me a concrete conclusion to a peer reviewed study that demonstrates that driving 10mph below the speed limit CAUSES accidents you are gonna have some difficulty promoting your viewpoint with anyone, let alone me.
Duffy, just go back and read my last email. Really read it, dont just repeat yourself over and over. The existing laws should be enforced, slower drivers who black traffic should be given tickets, and then evaluated for retesting, potentially losing their license. Welcome to the real world buddy, you cant drive forever, look at the statistics on older drivers if youve got so much time on your hands. And point to me the last time there was a study done on slow dirvers, never. My theory is that they lack the basic driving skills to handle a car at the posted speed limit.
Your intentions seem to change with every post. My arguments have stayed focused and constant.
Now you seem to be focusing on elderly drivers. Finally your European references have yielded a result–there is a maximum driving age in many European jurisdictions.
I am not an elderly driver but my understanding is that elderly drivers are allowed to keep their licenses for as long as they are able to be safe drivers.
Fortunately for your argument there have been documented incidents of elderly drivers causing accidents.
So now instead of regulating drivers going 10 mph below the speed limit you are talking about limiting the driving priveleges of elderly drivers. Such regulation is already being pursued in many jurisdictions but a standard policy nationally has yet to go into effect.
I am also curious if you have a specific requirement regarding elderly drivers that you consider would be effective. Simply an age limit? A specific level of driving expertise?
In what ways would you want to regulate the licensing in regards to elderly drivers?