OK , Smart Guy, how, if the building and contents is STILL THERE, BUT the 3rd story and 2 nd stories are not spread and just a bit jumbled. Large and very tall [ 100 foot high ?] trees are BROKEN at anywhere from the lower third, around the middle and anywhere else of the length of the trees in the neighborhood, AND \”point\” in every direction!!!!! it is scattered on the ground, bulldozers pushed some of the structure off the road and yet most of the support posts remain. Could this have been some tornadiac activity?? There have been tornados during past hurricanes and \”tropical storms\”. What do you say experts…do you say like those companies, State Farm, Allstate etc. How does 1 washing machine of 3 near its original position, the others in different directions etc.?? 40 to 100 feet away? All having been enclosed in a FEMA approved laundry room? Oh , I have lived in and through about 10 hurricanes from the 1930\’s….how about you and the totally inexperinced claims people from Iowa,Ill., Arizona, etc. who\’ve never seen an area hit by the eye of a hurricane—this one the second in almost exactly the same path as Camille. Maybe the annual bonuses caused a problem in trying to know the truth…when there does not appear to be imperical PROOF there was NO wind damage, just that there was some flooding in the area…ergo,[and I quote the St. Farm claim person. \”If it got wet,we won\’t give you a penny.\”
You wrote a thoughtful note, and I DO understand that Flood is NOT covered in typical property coverages any more. But it is in the FEMA NFIP policies. My concern is the errors, mistakes and poor attitude of entirely too many claims people–and the incorrect and improper decisions and pronouncements so many make without taking the time to research, check, and EVEN READ THE POLICIES before they attempt to foster on the \”INSURED\” to the insured\’s detriment. Now, I just read [on the net] that the Miss. Ins. Commisioner has required that the companies must accept \”eye witness accounts\” and other \”evidence\” claiments bring to the table in arbitration and must \”clearly demonstrate the cause of the loss.\” \”when the issue is whether the loss was caused by wind or water. THAT IS WHAT HAS BEEN FESTERING IN MY GUT, TONY. [I really think that the \”adjuster\” never even walked on the property as it was just a pile of debris—but did not even attempt to look at the neighborhood. No one asked me about the losses at my condo, or any of my neighbors to my knowledge. Did they know ANY of the loss history of the immediate area? I was one of the earliest there 23 years — saw the tornado damages, a bunch of tropical storms and hurricanes, stayed at home for almost all of them…..the ?claims inspector? called to ask directions,she promised to call soon as possible and would send me photos. Never heard from her again. Tony, I am not perfect, but I instructed the IIA courses to many claims people and had to explain coverage to correct even Claims Vice Presidents-Attorneys in court, explain to experienced claims people that a car that rolled into a pond is covered under Comprehensive Coverage, not Collision which usually has a higher deductible, that there is both an amount and percentage involved is certain \”crime coverage\”. I\’ve been retired for over 20 years, and worked all lines in many capacities [ARM, too] and I can also make a mistake. But I highly resent any person having \’control\’ over $$$$ that wrongly adjust, appraise, incorectly determine the amounts and improperly and uncaringly say things for any reason, \”If it got wet, its flood and you won\’t get a dime [ or penny]. I also have no respect for their \”professionalism\” or their superiors that allow such activities. It isn\’t always a matter of ignorance or education, it is also attitudes, an open vs closed minds. I received a photocopy of an engineers report saying there was flooding.[Which I\’ve heard was perhaps not necessarily exactly totally accurate]So I took a look for myself. My , my, evidently [a word Like evidence] I saw things that was not visible before. So can one deny windstorm damage when there was some water damage??? It ain\’t over until its over…and I may be old but my will will continue the fight at least to my first line of heirs…that was a really great place to live!!! See, I said I\’m not perfect, too wordy…came from reading too many insurance contracts and endorsements, arguing with underwriters to write sensibly and claims folks to settle quickly, correctly and sometimes creatively. Sometimes I really miss being in the industry–but it makes me a little sad to have to see what a horror it seems to have become. Dam!
Charles,
I know a little what you refer to. I have been involved in insurance for nearly 10 years. I have seen VERY good adjusters who work their tails off get little or no credit (or kindness/consideration) from emmployers or customers. The point that I was trying to make is that every C/R I have worked with tried their very best to provide the very best service to their customers. It really gripes my A$$ when I get on here and find everyone griping about those who worked their tails off, VOLUNTEERED to be away from their family, spent months in a place where you were sleeping two to a bed and were happy to have a bed or (as I did) go so friggin sick that when they went to a hospital, once the nurses took a pulse/ox sat, they immediately (and I do mean immediately) rushed that person to intensive care and drug a doctor in to see them (I am not the only one this happened to). People like Roger kill me. All they want to do is gripe, complain and screw the crap out of any person/insurance company they can. People like you who have seen both sides of the business need to provide a little more even treatment of those who do their best. Are their imcompetent boobs out there????? You bet! I worked for a casualty TM out of Nevada who didn\’t know her head from her a$$ when it comes to a property claim and she was reviewing my files??????? The major problem w/ this past season was that there was just plain too many claims. Independant companies were hiring anyone with a pulse to fill positions to provide Reps to the insurance companies. BUT, if they hadn\’t people would have called (they did anyway) griping about the lack of service. I spent several months in South Louisiana (I live in La.) and several months in Florida. I would rather spend a year in Florida than 1 month in South La. The people in Fl. were much more understanding, pleasant, accomodating and considerate. The difference was beyond words. I have heard mixed reviews from friends in south Miss.
One thing that I think everyone needs to remember is that it is the INSURED\’s responsibility to PROVE damage. I am sorry, but if you have a 4\’ water mark in your home and the surrounding area has 4\’ water marks from flood and you want me to cover the carpet under wind, it ain\’t happening. That being said, I know of one person (me) who had a house that had 7 LARGE pine trees on it. I did what a decent claim rep would do. Everything below the water mark was flood. Everything that was damaged (from holes in the roof, ceilings etc. was covered under wind. Sorry folks, but if it was below the water mark, FLOOD. If it was above it and not specifically excluded, Wind. If no wind damage (roof still there and no trees on house, all windows are there, etc and you want me to cover mold 7\’ up the wall….. best thing I can tell folks is to read the policy.
I guess I am not perfect either. I am also wordy. I like nearly every claim rep I know, just do the best we can. It really amazes me how many people want to whine and complain and blame someone else when they were to lazy, unintelligent or just plain stupid to read their policy.
I have two sayings, I use all the time in my work, that I think people need to remember for future reference….. (1)There was only one perfect person, and I AIN\’T him (but I do try my best). (2) You get what you pay for. If you choose a crap insurance company to save $20 bucks a year (See the good hands folks) don\’t gripe when you get lousy service.
Wrong genius. Again, you and most others here generalize. Number one, you get what you pay for. Number two, READ your policy. It is YOUR responsibility to PROVE YOUR LOSS. Unfortunately, most claim reps I know are NOT psychic. We can\’t \”see\” what happened two weeks before we got there. Number three, you think it would be better if the insurance companies left????? Chuckles, you need to talk to some of the folks that live on the east side of Highway 95 in Ft. Lauderdale, Miami etc. They have to have a Citizen\’s policy (written by the state, not some \”cheap\” insurance company) to cover ANY wind loss. THEN it has to be a declared storm. Then they get the joy of paying (approximately) TWICE as much for a policy that ONLY covers wind damage under set circumstances as they do for their homeowners policy.
Call an agent in Fl. Ask him for a rat quote. It will blow your mind. Imagine your insurance premiums doubling for the same coverage (BTW, you think the insurance companies are strict???? They THROW $ at customers compared to the State).
I know there are a lot of people upset about their loss or the way they were treated. I have a lot of empathy and sympathy for them. UNTIL they show their ignorance about the insurance policy that they NEVER read. You have NO idea the number of people who got mad at me because their flood policy provides NO additional living benefits if their home becomes uninhabitable. READ YOUR POLICY FOLKS. If you don\’t like it, pay more for more/better coverage.
Then let them leave the USA.
What are we loosing?
They don\’t pay anyway.
We can keep our Annual Premiums.
We can afford to rebuild above the water line and still save money.
They don\’t need to pay for flood damage.
They Must Pay for Wind Damages.
They want to blame all damage on flood.
That is my beef with the Industry.
You stated;
_____
\”People like Roger kill me. All they want to do is gripe, complain and screw the crap out of any person/insurance company they can.\”
_____
What rotten and presumptuous bridge of logic did you use to make such a statement?
My commentary, based on verifiable / hardcopy evidence of past and ongoing claim settlement conduct, by certain insurance companies, Allstate included,
is real.
Their damaged property underassessment, people handling, and claim underpayment schemes are fine-tuned, polished, and transparent, to the trained eye, and mind.
They know perfectly well what they are doing to their trusting clients.
They know that convincing advertising and collecting premiums, and collectively deceptive cooperation within, and outside, their organizational ranks to NOT pay out claims in an appropriate manner, case-by-case, commonly equals higher (illegal) contingent profits.
When I see something underhanded happening to my clients, relatives and neighbors, I, like others, stand up for them.
When I see them being preyed on by people who pretend to love them, but are just trying to deceive them, I stand up for them.
How you concluded that exposing clever, hard-to-detect and fraudulent carrier / adjuster conduct means that I somehow \”screw the crap out of any person/insurance company they can\”, is typical doublespeak from someone who seems to know better.
As for your comment about people needing to read and \’understand\’ their policies…many attorneys are stumped by them.
Did you totally understand every promised word, and it\’s common meaning, stated or implied, in the contract you signed for for owning your car, before you signed?
Do you think about that contract often enough to make sure you fully understand your rights, based on current judicial decisions, and how in the future your polished understanding may not match some deceptively clever attorney\’s
\”understanding\”, and protect yourself, knowledge-wise, accordingly?
Many people can THINK / BELIEVE they are paying for something, because of THE MANNER in which the seller explained the benefit of their product or service to the investor.
Honorable insurers, agents and adjusters exist.
Sadly though, certain high profile insurance companies business actions, based on fear and greed, can make people suffer, unnessesarily.
Those (nationwide) actions are not going on unnoticed, and will not go on unaddressed by the proper authorities.
Roger,
I have never worked for Allstate (and never will), so I can\’t speak to their policies, whether written, verbal, actual, factual or implied.
Having said that, allow me to issue you a challenge….. Find one attorney who handles contract law who will admit to being, and I quote, \”stumped\” by an insurance policy and next time I am in Florida, I will by you a soda of your choice.
Every lawyer in the world that practices contact law thinks they can interpret an insurance policy. Does that mean that reasonable minds can not disagree? Nope, sure doesn\’t, but in the same vein when a contact you sign states specific causes of loss are excluded, you will always find a lawyer who will try to \”make a name for himself\” by taking on the insurance companies (and taking 33% or better of any settlement) and hoping to win.
As for another issue that you point out about buying a car. IF I didn\’t understand a provision in a contact, it would be explained &/or delineated further in writing BEFORE I signed the contract. Have you ever heard the expression Caveat Emptor???
The reason I feel the way I do (believe it or not, this is America and I am allowed to form an opinion about someone based on whatever criteria I choose) about you is the thread of posts you have authored. You seem (granted, I have not met nor dealt with you personally) to voice every view point that my years of experience have taught me is inimicable in someone who wants little more than to make as much $ as quickly as possible and yet you pose as the advocate of the poor beknighted consumer. BUT, when it comes time to talking to the consumer away from the adjuster all the sudden there are a myriad of ways that the job can be done to save the consumer their deductible, and/or get the insurance company to pay for upgrades, etc. I don\’t need to delineate, you are obviously intelligent enough to know what I am referring to.
As for my opinion of you and what type of contractor you are……. I can sum it up in a couple of statements. Allow me one caveat to state, that I care little about the quality of your work. First, I came on this thread and freely announced my profession and why I took the position I have. You hid your profession, attempting to let others make \”erroneous preferably\” judgements about your occupation so that it would appear you were unbiased. To continue, that type of action to me indicates someone that I would consider untrustworthy. To conclude, I wouldn\’t pay you to build a doghouse in my backyard.
As I have stated, there ARE bad adjusters or at the very least very inexperienced ones out there. My main gripe is that people want to come here and accuse a judge of improper conduct or accuse all insurance companies of improper conduct in handling claims, when in reality all it is, is a gripe session. They didn\’t get what they wanted (because of an exclusion in the policy (that THEY should take responsibility for as they signed a contract for it, bought it and paid for it) so all of the sudden everyone in the world is against them. GROW UP. What happens in your life is YOUR responsibility to handle, not the Federal governments, not the State or Local governments, not Roger Poe\’s, not your Momma\’s (unless you are underage of course in which case you don\’t have the right to enter into a contract legally)! IF you sign something you don\’t understand, don\’t expect the rest of the world to come to your aid. Stand on your own two feet and be an adult. If you don\’t understand it, DON\’T sign it until you do. Anyone who let\’s a fast talking salesman push them into something they don\’t understand deserves NO pity. The rest of us do, as these morons have the right to vote.
As for my \”doublespeak\”…….. I am SOOO very tired of people like you who want to use the word love when dealing in business. I would \”Love\” to be able to have enough time w/ each of my customers to know whether I want to love them or not, much less develop such a strong emotion towards them. Until I am cloned, empathy and sympathy for their loss is the best I can do. Who are you trying to kid? \”People who pretend to love them\”…. Come on. Adjusters are so busy, we barely have time to talk to those we have married, sired or already have a relationship with to get our customers to \”love\” us or for us to \”love\” them.
\”Clever, hard-to-detect and fradulent carrier/adjuster conduct\”. How about this. I pay for what is covered. What the insured (as required by the contract) can PROVE to me is a covered loss. If they can\’t and I can\’t in all honesty and (here it finally comes) in good faith, find a way to cover it, then it isn\’t covered. I realize I am a bit different then some adjusters, but I live by the motto, \”I look for coverage, not exclusions (or exclusionary language)\”. I truly do as does every adjuster that I have ever met that works for the same company I do. Lumping everyone together and lambasting us, does little else than to prove my original opinion of you was correct.
Lastly, you cast a VERY wide net w/ your accusations against \”high profile insurance companies\”. I would strongly suggest to you, not to name names, unless you have something called PROOF. I am just guessing, but I bet you couldn\’t handle (nor would you be successful in defending) a libel suit.
BTW, your (implied) threat about the, \”nationwide (didn\’t know you were a licensed GC in all 50 states or is it just the contiguous 48) actions are not going unnoticed, and will not go on…….etc\”. I have very little doubt (yeah, right) that you have the ability to make the authorities address the issue. My guess is that you HOPE something will happen along the same lines as I HOPE Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi will enforce their (better watch out) gouging laws.
Might I suggest you get some provable facts before you rant and rave about/against those that have \”been there and done that\”. Just a thought.
Ciao Baby.
You seem to feel the best defense is a good (convoluted) offense.
Let me state once more…honorable insurers and adjusters exist.
Let me state it again…honorable insurers and adjusters exist.
One more time…honorable insurers and adjusters exist.
Too, my commentary is provided for the general public as a heads-up for helping them figure out their damaged structure losses, and making sure predatory insurers are receiving the public recognition they deserve.
By-the-way Tony, I\’m hardly alone in my documental evidence against Allstate / Pilot Claim Service, State Farm, Farmers, Safeco, USAA and the TWIA.
Their very clients hold proof of their underpayment schemes.
You stated about me;
\”Lastly, you cast a VERY wide net w/ your accusations against \”high profile insurance companies\”. I would strongly suggest to you, not to name names, unless you have something called PROOF. I am just guessing, but I bet you couldn\’t handle (nor would you be successful in defending) a libel suit.
BTW, your (implied) threat about the, \”nationwide (didn\’t know you were a licensed GC in all 50 states or is it just the contiguous 48) actions are not going unnoticed, and will not go on…….etc\”. I have very little doubt (yeah, right) that you have the ability to make the authorities address the issue. My guess is that you HOPE something will happen along the same lines as I HOPE Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi will enforce their (better watch out) gouging laws.
Might I suggest you get some provable facts before you rant and rave about/against those that have \”been there and done that\”. Just a thought.
Ciao Baby.\”
__________
Did you pick up on the General Contractor status by the continued presence of my e-mail address?
I\’m hardly hiding my identity now, am I Tony?
Licensed GC in all 50 states?
No Tony, I\’m licensed where I do business, and I communicate with others across the nation, and help track carrier / adjuster market conduct.
Oh, and as for PROOF of underpayment schemes…not to worry, there is HARD proof a plenty.
Quick for-instance, I just received a State Farm estimate from a client yesterday.
Now check out this summary page, and see if you can help the public understand it is NOT a synthetic construction
\”estimate\”;
Summary For Hurricane
$10,103.19 Line Item Total
$114.67 6.000% Materials Sales Tax __________
$10,217.86 Replacement Cost Value
$ 2,607.44 Less Depreciation
__________
$ 7,610.42 Actual Cash Value
$ 761.04 Overhead @ 10%
$ 761.04 Profit @ 10%
__________
$ 9,132.50 Actual Cash Value Incl. O&P
$ 2,272.00 Less Deductible
__________
$ 6,860.50 Net Actual Cash Value Payment
Two (hard-to-detect) synthetic / false construction estimation methodology points…
1. Notice that Contractor overhead and profit was NOT applied to the ACTUAL projected loss reconstruction value sum, ($10,217.86), but to the DEPRECIATED $7,610.42 sum. Hmmmm…
2. Notice that the estimated business profit value is THE SAME as the business overhead factor.
Since a anticipated (10% profit margin) can only be accomplished by measuring it against the WHOLE investment risk of a project (hard costs and overhead), a SYNTHETIC / FALSE profit amount exists.
Again, Hmmmm…
Soooo, See how TRUE Contractor O&P is missing…twice!?
Do that to untold tens-of-thousands of so-called construction \”estimates\” and…well…you know what that is called…
I have been an adjuster for six years. Having grown up with a homebuilder and insurance agent for parents, it was a natural choice after grad school. Until December \’05, I worked for a large catastrophe adjusting firm. My husband and I worked together while traveling the country, earning a fabulous income, and meeting extraordinary people. Prior to 2004 I experienced very few instances of practices by insurers that I would have labeled negligent, illegal, or deceptive. In general, most insurers appeared to have an interest in settling claims quickly and fairly within the boundaries of their contracts. In order to achieve good will, I have seen insurers pay for losses(food replacement, etc.) that were not legitimatly covered under the policy. During this period, one of the most difficult aspects of my job was explaining coverage to the insureds. After grad school, I took a three week, 120-hour course on policy coverage, after which I felt as though I had obtained an acceptable level of understanding on how to interpret property coverage language. Yet, on many occasions thereafter, I made mistakes. It soon became evident that the vast majority of policy holders had an extremely limited knowledge of their coverages. Not surprising, given that they do not take three week courses. In 100% of the scenarios in which I have adjusted losses, the insureds were either surprised to learn that some portion of their property was not covered or limited to some degree below that which they understood to be limited. Prior to 2004 however, these situations did not typically result in tragic outcomes for the insureds. In each instance, I encouraged the insureds to contact their agents for clarification and recommendations for updating or upgrading their coverages.
Unfortunately, beginning with the four hurricanes in 2004, claims adjusting practices have changed dramatically. Suddenly, roofs, carpets, awnings, and a litany of other trades are no longer allowed to be considered for Overhead and Profit by many insurers. Taxes and O&P are no longer are part of the calculation for ACV. We \”negotiate\” different prices with individual insureds as if we were purchasing an automobile. My neighbor might have been paid $1400 per Square for the same roof that I was only allowed $900 from the same insurer. To my astonishment, I have come to know that most of the claims that I have adjusted were estimated with a price database that is 70-110% below actual market pricing. And worse, these people who I left \”knowing\” that I had worked diligently to find all the coverage available to them, were taking the proceeds of those claims and settling for those amounts. The majority had no inclination that they had alternatives or could file supplements or dispute in any manner, the amounts of the settlements.
Needless to say, after two years of struggling with the ever increasing restraints and borderline illegal practices to which I was forced to impose on these uninformed consumers, I resigned my position as an independent adjuster.
In December of 2005, I opened a public adjusting firm in South Florida. Now, we experience on a daily basis the abhorrent practices of insurance companies and those adjusters who represent them. Understand that it is my position that there are companies that handle their claims quickly, precisely, and professional in total compliance with the contract. However, those companies are in the vast minority. Last week, we filed a Civil Remedy on behalf of one of our clents siting 19 violations of statutes by one of the largest insurers in the state. My firm is representing over 300 clients currently and this is our current statistical compilation:
287 claims open in excess of 180 days.
143 in violation of at least five Florida statutes relating to adjusting practices.
These numbers represent staggering figures. On the average, we collect 293% more money from the insurance companies than was estimated originally and we achieve this by using the same adjusting practices that I have used for six years.
Mr. Poe, on behalf of those in this profession who take pride in said profession, I will apologize on behalf of these representatives of our industry, who with obvious disdain and disregard for the wide-spread consequences of their arrogance and flagrantly, biased disrespect for their insureds, contractors, attorneys or any others who oppose or even call into question their righteousness, honor, or the finality of their opinions. Their defensive, territorial chest-beating and sophomoric, belittling statements are a clear indication of exactly why consumers need protection. Whether or not your business practices are ethical is completely beyond my discernment; however, I appreciate your seemingly sincere interest and dedication to making a difference in our industry.
1. The ACV amount should reflect primary-general contractor replacement costs…depreciated.
Why so?
Replacement costs, depreciated, will NOT have primary-general-specialty contractor business overhead and profit loss values MISSING, unless a insurer can figure out somehow (indemnification and premium value wise) to estimate the future replacement procedures and costs of a covered structure without [typical and historical] primary-general contactors\’ involvement.
(It would be a neat trick if a structure could \”poof\” into existence).
Sooooo, whether a ACV (actual cash value policy) OR a RCV (replacement cost value) policy, the proper measure for ACV math is–[Primary-General] Contractor RCV minus Depreciation = ACV.
2. State Farm admitted the overhead and profit was part of the loss value by necessarily disclosing it in the DEPRECIATED ACV math.
However, by NOT keeping RCV / ACV values proportionally whole, and in proper order, the ACV loss value \”budget\” is greatly reduced (twice) on the front end.
(Once by ommitting Contractor O&P as part of Replacement Costs, and again by the ACV 10% profit line not equaling 10% of the costs above it).
Check out how much more the insured would have to work with;
$10,103.19 Sub-Total
$ 114.67 Material Tax
_________________________
$10,217.86 Sub-sub total
$ 1,021.79 10% Overhead
_________________________
$11,239.65 Total
$ 1,123.97 10% Profit
_________________________
$12,363.62 Basic Business Math Grand Total
$10,217.86 State Farm Math Grand Total
$12,363.62 Basic Business Math Grand Total
$ 2,607.44 Minus Depreciation
__________________________
$ 9,756.18 Basic Business Math ACV
$ 2,272.00 Minus Deductible
__________________________
$ 7,484.18 Net Basic Business Math ACV
$ 6,860.50 Minus State Farm Net ACV Math
__________________________
$ 623.68 ACV Dollar Difference
Depreciating the ACTUAL Contractor replacement cost loss value sum, would have favored the insured by hundreds and hundred of dollars.
Now why would that approach be fair to insureds?
To factoring a true 10% profit margin would favor the insured. (If the profit line sum does not equal 10% of the total replacement cost above it, it reaaaalllly isn\’t 10% value, is it Mark)?
(A [cool] math trick IF you want ones to walk away, not notice, or attempt to work with synthetic ACV loss values, while (the insurer) keeps the balance in the bank.
Look at it this way Mark, a uninsured property has [ALL typical contractors involved] business costs built into its creation, or PLACEMENT.
In heirarchal contractor order, the primary-general contractor is first and foremost, with all other sub-contractors used by the investing contractor to PLACE a structure.
To to calculate the replacement cost of the said placed structure, an insurance agent could ask the primary-general contractor for ALL structural construction costs from A-Z. Or they could purchase and reference MS/B type construction component data to estimate the structure\’s replacement costs. Or use a square foot / zip code based software program.
However they figure replacement costs of a structure, unless a structure can poof into place, there is no skirting of accounting for ALL TYPICAL / HISTORICAL CONSTRUCTION REPLACEMENT (RCV) COST values in either ACV or RCV policies.
ACV policies are usually cheaper because the actual cash value of the aged loss components will be the future payment schedule for loss values, and not replacement cost value.
Claiming, during the estimating of claims, that ALL contractors overhead and profit costs, factored by the agent, and reflected in premiums, are suddenly and mysteriously NOT part of predetermined replacement costs creates systhetic RCV / ACV loss values prepaid for, should a loss occur.
Here\’s the summary Mark:
1. Insurance agent estimates replacement costs of structure that real world construction estimating requires.
2. Insurers can acknowledge those apples-for-apples indemnified replacement costs when settling claims, or not.
Pretending ALL Contractors business cost values are not part of every square inch of single or multiple trade work loss claim value smacks of an illegal financial shell game…no?
Collecting premium for which loss may never be paid is illegal windfall…no?
Knowing depreciated replacement cost (ACV) values contain ALL Contractors replacement cost value pieces, then not disclosing those values IN PROPER ORDER, when adjusters estimate loss claim values, is fiducial unfairness to insureds…no?
Although this does not really matter in true ACV loss math factoring, that should always reflect true depreciated RCV loss values, it is a replacement cost policy Mark.
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OK , Smart Guy, how, if the building and contents is STILL THERE, BUT the 3rd story and 2 nd stories are not spread and just a bit jumbled. Large and very tall [ 100 foot high ?] trees are BROKEN at anywhere from the lower third, around the middle and anywhere else of the length of the trees in the neighborhood, AND \”point\” in every direction!!!!! it is scattered on the ground, bulldozers pushed some of the structure off the road and yet most of the support posts remain. Could this have been some tornadiac activity?? There have been tornados during past hurricanes and \”tropical storms\”. What do you say experts…do you say like those companies, State Farm, Allstate etc. How does 1 washing machine of 3 near its original position, the others in different directions etc.?? 40 to 100 feet away? All having been enclosed in a FEMA approved laundry room? Oh , I have lived in and through about 10 hurricanes from the 1930\’s….how about you and the totally inexperinced claims people from Iowa,Ill., Arizona, etc. who\’ve never seen an area hit by the eye of a hurricane—this one the second in almost exactly the same path as Camille. Maybe the annual bonuses caused a problem in trying to know the truth…when there does not appear to be imperical PROOF there was NO wind damage, just that there was some flooding in the area…ergo,[and I quote the St. Farm claim person. \”If it got wet,we won\’t give you a penny.\”
You wrote a thoughtful note, and I DO understand that Flood is NOT covered in typical property coverages any more. But it is in the FEMA NFIP policies. My concern is the errors, mistakes and poor attitude of entirely too many claims people–and the incorrect and improper decisions and pronouncements so many make without taking the time to research, check, and EVEN READ THE POLICIES before they attempt to foster on the \”INSURED\” to the insured\’s detriment. Now, I just read [on the net] that the Miss. Ins. Commisioner has required that the companies must accept \”eye witness accounts\” and other \”evidence\” claiments bring to the table in arbitration and must \”clearly demonstrate the cause of the loss.\” \”when the issue is whether the loss was caused by wind or water. THAT IS WHAT HAS BEEN FESTERING IN MY GUT, TONY. [I really think that the \”adjuster\” never even walked on the property as it was just a pile of debris—but did not even attempt to look at the neighborhood. No one asked me about the losses at my condo, or any of my neighbors to my knowledge. Did they know ANY of the loss history of the immediate area? I was one of the earliest there 23 years — saw the tornado damages, a bunch of tropical storms and hurricanes, stayed at home for almost all of them…..the ?claims inspector? called to ask directions,she promised to call soon as possible and would send me photos. Never heard from her again. Tony, I am not perfect, but I instructed the IIA courses to many claims people and had to explain coverage to correct even Claims Vice Presidents-Attorneys in court, explain to experienced claims people that a car that rolled into a pond is covered under Comprehensive Coverage, not Collision which usually has a higher deductible, that there is both an amount and percentage involved is certain \”crime coverage\”. I\’ve been retired for over 20 years, and worked all lines in many capacities [ARM, too] and I can also make a mistake. But I highly resent any person having \’control\’ over $$$$ that wrongly adjust, appraise, incorectly determine the amounts and improperly and uncaringly say things for any reason, \”If it got wet, its flood and you won\’t get a dime [ or penny]. I also have no respect for their \”professionalism\” or their superiors that allow such activities. It isn\’t always a matter of ignorance or education, it is also attitudes, an open vs closed minds. I received a photocopy of an engineers report saying there was flooding.[Which I\’ve heard was perhaps not necessarily exactly totally accurate]So I took a look for myself. My , my, evidently [a word Like evidence] I saw things that was not visible before. So can one deny windstorm damage when there was some water damage??? It ain\’t over until its over…and I may be old but my will will continue the fight at least to my first line of heirs…that was a really great place to live!!! See, I said I\’m not perfect, too wordy…came from reading too many insurance contracts and endorsements, arguing with underwriters to write sensibly and claims folks to settle quickly, correctly and sometimes creatively. Sometimes I really miss being in the industry–but it makes me a little sad to have to see what a horror it seems to have become. Dam!
Charles,
I know a little what you refer to. I have been involved in insurance for nearly 10 years. I have seen VERY good adjusters who work their tails off get little or no credit (or kindness/consideration) from emmployers or customers. The point that I was trying to make is that every C/R I have worked with tried their very best to provide the very best service to their customers. It really gripes my A$$ when I get on here and find everyone griping about those who worked their tails off, VOLUNTEERED to be away from their family, spent months in a place where you were sleeping two to a bed and were happy to have a bed or (as I did) go so friggin sick that when they went to a hospital, once the nurses took a pulse/ox sat, they immediately (and I do mean immediately) rushed that person to intensive care and drug a doctor in to see them (I am not the only one this happened to). People like Roger kill me. All they want to do is gripe, complain and screw the crap out of any person/insurance company they can. People like you who have seen both sides of the business need to provide a little more even treatment of those who do their best. Are their imcompetent boobs out there????? You bet! I worked for a casualty TM out of Nevada who didn\’t know her head from her a$$ when it comes to a property claim and she was reviewing my files??????? The major problem w/ this past season was that there was just plain too many claims. Independant companies were hiring anyone with a pulse to fill positions to provide Reps to the insurance companies. BUT, if they hadn\’t people would have called (they did anyway) griping about the lack of service. I spent several months in South Louisiana (I live in La.) and several months in Florida. I would rather spend a year in Florida than 1 month in South La. The people in Fl. were much more understanding, pleasant, accomodating and considerate. The difference was beyond words. I have heard mixed reviews from friends in south Miss.
One thing that I think everyone needs to remember is that it is the INSURED\’s responsibility to PROVE damage. I am sorry, but if you have a 4\’ water mark in your home and the surrounding area has 4\’ water marks from flood and you want me to cover the carpet under wind, it ain\’t happening. That being said, I know of one person (me) who had a house that had 7 LARGE pine trees on it. I did what a decent claim rep would do. Everything below the water mark was flood. Everything that was damaged (from holes in the roof, ceilings etc. was covered under wind. Sorry folks, but if it was below the water mark, FLOOD. If it was above it and not specifically excluded, Wind. If no wind damage (roof still there and no trees on house, all windows are there, etc and you want me to cover mold 7\’ up the wall….. best thing I can tell folks is to read the policy.
I guess I am not perfect either. I am also wordy. I like nearly every claim rep I know, just do the best we can. It really amazes me how many people want to whine and complain and blame someone else when they were to lazy, unintelligent or just plain stupid to read their policy.
I have two sayings, I use all the time in my work, that I think people need to remember for future reference….. (1)There was only one perfect person, and I AIN\’T him (but I do try my best). (2) You get what you pay for. If you choose a crap insurance company to save $20 bucks a year (See the good hands folks) don\’t gripe when you get lousy service.
Wrong genius. Again, you and most others here generalize. Number one, you get what you pay for. Number two, READ your policy. It is YOUR responsibility to PROVE YOUR LOSS. Unfortunately, most claim reps I know are NOT psychic. We can\’t \”see\” what happened two weeks before we got there. Number three, you think it would be better if the insurance companies left????? Chuckles, you need to talk to some of the folks that live on the east side of Highway 95 in Ft. Lauderdale, Miami etc. They have to have a Citizen\’s policy (written by the state, not some \”cheap\” insurance company) to cover ANY wind loss. THEN it has to be a declared storm. Then they get the joy of paying (approximately) TWICE as much for a policy that ONLY covers wind damage under set circumstances as they do for their homeowners policy.
Call an agent in Fl. Ask him for a rat quote. It will blow your mind. Imagine your insurance premiums doubling for the same coverage (BTW, you think the insurance companies are strict???? They THROW $ at customers compared to the State).
I know there are a lot of people upset about their loss or the way they were treated. I have a lot of empathy and sympathy for them. UNTIL they show their ignorance about the insurance policy that they NEVER read. You have NO idea the number of people who got mad at me because their flood policy provides NO additional living benefits if their home becomes uninhabitable. READ YOUR POLICY FOLKS. If you don\’t like it, pay more for more/better coverage.
Then let them leave the USA.
What are we loosing?
They don\’t pay anyway.
We can keep our Annual Premiums.
We can afford to rebuild above the water line and still save money.
They don\’t need to pay for flood damage.
They Must Pay for Wind Damages.
They want to blame all damage on flood.
That is my beef with the Industry.
4-28-2005
Tony,
You stated;
_____
\”People like Roger kill me. All they want to do is gripe, complain and screw the crap out of any person/insurance company they can.\”
_____
What rotten and presumptuous bridge of logic did you use to make such a statement?
My commentary, based on verifiable / hardcopy evidence of past and ongoing claim settlement conduct, by certain insurance companies, Allstate included,
is real.
Their damaged property underassessment, people handling, and claim underpayment schemes are fine-tuned, polished, and transparent, to the trained eye, and mind.
They know perfectly well what they are doing to their trusting clients.
They know that convincing advertising and collecting premiums, and collectively deceptive cooperation within, and outside, their organizational ranks to NOT pay out claims in an appropriate manner, case-by-case, commonly equals higher (illegal) contingent profits.
When I see something underhanded happening to my clients, relatives and neighbors, I, like others, stand up for them.
When I see them being preyed on by people who pretend to love them, but are just trying to deceive them, I stand up for them.
How you concluded that exposing clever, hard-to-detect and fraudulent carrier / adjuster conduct means that I somehow \”screw the crap out of any person/insurance company they can\”, is typical doublespeak from someone who seems to know better.
As for your comment about people needing to read and \’understand\’ their policies…many attorneys are stumped by them.
Did you totally understand every promised word, and it\’s common meaning, stated or implied, in the contract you signed for for owning your car, before you signed?
Do you think about that contract often enough to make sure you fully understand your rights, based on current judicial decisions, and how in the future your polished understanding may not match some deceptively clever attorney\’s
\”understanding\”, and protect yourself, knowledge-wise, accordingly?
Many people can THINK / BELIEVE they are paying for something, because of THE MANNER in which the seller explained the benefit of their product or service to the investor.
Honorable insurers, agents and adjusters exist.
Sadly though, certain high profile insurance companies business actions, based on fear and greed, can make people suffer, unnessesarily.
Those (nationwide) actions are not going on unnoticed, and will not go on unaddressed by the proper authorities.
rogerpoegc@yahoo.com
Roger,
I have never worked for Allstate (and never will), so I can\’t speak to their policies, whether written, verbal, actual, factual or implied.
Having said that, allow me to issue you a challenge….. Find one attorney who handles contract law who will admit to being, and I quote, \”stumped\” by an insurance policy and next time I am in Florida, I will by you a soda of your choice.
Every lawyer in the world that practices contact law thinks they can interpret an insurance policy. Does that mean that reasonable minds can not disagree? Nope, sure doesn\’t, but in the same vein when a contact you sign states specific causes of loss are excluded, you will always find a lawyer who will try to \”make a name for himself\” by taking on the insurance companies (and taking 33% or better of any settlement) and hoping to win.
As for another issue that you point out about buying a car. IF I didn\’t understand a provision in a contact, it would be explained &/or delineated further in writing BEFORE I signed the contract. Have you ever heard the expression Caveat Emptor???
The reason I feel the way I do (believe it or not, this is America and I am allowed to form an opinion about someone based on whatever criteria I choose) about you is the thread of posts you have authored. You seem (granted, I have not met nor dealt with you personally) to voice every view point that my years of experience have taught me is inimicable in someone who wants little more than to make as much $ as quickly as possible and yet you pose as the advocate of the poor beknighted consumer. BUT, when it comes time to talking to the consumer away from the adjuster all the sudden there are a myriad of ways that the job can be done to save the consumer their deductible, and/or get the insurance company to pay for upgrades, etc. I don\’t need to delineate, you are obviously intelligent enough to know what I am referring to.
As for my opinion of you and what type of contractor you are……. I can sum it up in a couple of statements. Allow me one caveat to state, that I care little about the quality of your work. First, I came on this thread and freely announced my profession and why I took the position I have. You hid your profession, attempting to let others make \”erroneous preferably\” judgements about your occupation so that it would appear you were unbiased. To continue, that type of action to me indicates someone that I would consider untrustworthy. To conclude, I wouldn\’t pay you to build a doghouse in my backyard.
As I have stated, there ARE bad adjusters or at the very least very inexperienced ones out there. My main gripe is that people want to come here and accuse a judge of improper conduct or accuse all insurance companies of improper conduct in handling claims, when in reality all it is, is a gripe session. They didn\’t get what they wanted (because of an exclusion in the policy (that THEY should take responsibility for as they signed a contract for it, bought it and paid for it) so all of the sudden everyone in the world is against them. GROW UP. What happens in your life is YOUR responsibility to handle, not the Federal governments, not the State or Local governments, not Roger Poe\’s, not your Momma\’s (unless you are underage of course in which case you don\’t have the right to enter into a contract legally)! IF you sign something you don\’t understand, don\’t expect the rest of the world to come to your aid. Stand on your own two feet and be an adult. If you don\’t understand it, DON\’T sign it until you do. Anyone who let\’s a fast talking salesman push them into something they don\’t understand deserves NO pity. The rest of us do, as these morons have the right to vote.
As for my \”doublespeak\”…….. I am SOOO very tired of people like you who want to use the word love when dealing in business. I would \”Love\” to be able to have enough time w/ each of my customers to know whether I want to love them or not, much less develop such a strong emotion towards them. Until I am cloned, empathy and sympathy for their loss is the best I can do. Who are you trying to kid? \”People who pretend to love them\”…. Come on. Adjusters are so busy, we barely have time to talk to those we have married, sired or already have a relationship with to get our customers to \”love\” us or for us to \”love\” them.
\”Clever, hard-to-detect and fradulent carrier/adjuster conduct\”. How about this. I pay for what is covered. What the insured (as required by the contract) can PROVE to me is a covered loss. If they can\’t and I can\’t in all honesty and (here it finally comes) in good faith, find a way to cover it, then it isn\’t covered. I realize I am a bit different then some adjusters, but I live by the motto, \”I look for coverage, not exclusions (or exclusionary language)\”. I truly do as does every adjuster that I have ever met that works for the same company I do. Lumping everyone together and lambasting us, does little else than to prove my original opinion of you was correct.
Lastly, you cast a VERY wide net w/ your accusations against \”high profile insurance companies\”. I would strongly suggest to you, not to name names, unless you have something called PROOF. I am just guessing, but I bet you couldn\’t handle (nor would you be successful in defending) a libel suit.
BTW, your (implied) threat about the, \”nationwide (didn\’t know you were a licensed GC in all 50 states or is it just the contiguous 48) actions are not going unnoticed, and will not go on…….etc\”. I have very little doubt (yeah, right) that you have the ability to make the authorities address the issue. My guess is that you HOPE something will happen along the same lines as I HOPE Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi will enforce their (better watch out) gouging laws.
Might I suggest you get some provable facts before you rant and rave about/against those that have \”been there and done that\”. Just a thought.
Ciao Baby.
4-29-2006
Tony,
Interesting commentary.
You seem to feel the best defense is a good (convoluted) offense.
Let me state once more…honorable insurers and adjusters exist.
Let me state it again…honorable insurers and adjusters exist.
One more time…honorable insurers and adjusters exist.
Too, my commentary is provided for the general public as a heads-up for helping them figure out their damaged structure losses, and making sure predatory insurers are receiving the public recognition they deserve.
By-the-way Tony, I\’m hardly alone in my documental evidence against Allstate / Pilot Claim Service, State Farm, Farmers, Safeco, USAA and the TWIA.
Their very clients hold proof of their underpayment schemes.
You stated about me;
\”Lastly, you cast a VERY wide net w/ your accusations against \”high profile insurance companies\”. I would strongly suggest to you, not to name names, unless you have something called PROOF. I am just guessing, but I bet you couldn\’t handle (nor would you be successful in defending) a libel suit.
BTW, your (implied) threat about the, \”nationwide (didn\’t know you were a licensed GC in all 50 states or is it just the contiguous 48) actions are not going unnoticed, and will not go on…….etc\”. I have very little doubt (yeah, right) that you have the ability to make the authorities address the issue. My guess is that you HOPE something will happen along the same lines as I HOPE Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi will enforce their (better watch out) gouging laws.
Might I suggest you get some provable facts before you rant and rave about/against those that have \”been there and done that\”. Just a thought.
Ciao Baby.\”
__________
Did you pick up on the General Contractor status by the continued presence of my e-mail address?
I\’m hardly hiding my identity now, am I Tony?
Licensed GC in all 50 states?
No Tony, I\’m licensed where I do business, and I communicate with others across the nation, and help track carrier / adjuster market conduct.
Oh, and as for PROOF of underpayment schemes…not to worry, there is HARD proof a plenty.
Quick for-instance, I just received a State Farm estimate from a client yesterday.
Now check out this summary page, and see if you can help the public understand it is NOT a synthetic construction
\”estimate\”;
Summary For Hurricane
$10,103.19 Line Item Total
$114.67 6.000% Materials Sales Tax __________
$10,217.86 Replacement Cost Value
$ 2,607.44 Less Depreciation
__________
$ 7,610.42 Actual Cash Value
$ 761.04 Overhead @ 10%
$ 761.04 Profit @ 10%
__________
$ 9,132.50 Actual Cash Value Incl. O&P
$ 2,272.00 Less Deductible
__________
$ 6,860.50 Net Actual Cash Value Payment
Two (hard-to-detect) synthetic / false construction estimation methodology points…
1. Notice that Contractor overhead and profit was NOT applied to the ACTUAL projected loss reconstruction value sum, ($10,217.86), but to the DEPRECIATED $7,610.42 sum. Hmmmm…
2. Notice that the estimated business profit value is THE SAME as the business overhead factor.
Since a anticipated (10% profit margin) can only be accomplished by measuring it against the WHOLE investment risk of a project (hard costs and overhead), a SYNTHETIC / FALSE profit amount exists.
Again, Hmmmm…
Soooo, See how TRUE Contractor O&P is missing…twice!?
Do that to untold tens-of-thousands of so-called construction \”estimates\” and…well…you know what that is called…
Care to see some more underpayment schemes?
rogerpoegc@yahoo.com
P.S. Discovery / Claim Audits…Two powerful tools for truth seekers…
Gentlemen,
I have been an adjuster for six years. Having grown up with a homebuilder and insurance agent for parents, it was a natural choice after grad school. Until December \’05, I worked for a large catastrophe adjusting firm. My husband and I worked together while traveling the country, earning a fabulous income, and meeting extraordinary people. Prior to 2004 I experienced very few instances of practices by insurers that I would have labeled negligent, illegal, or deceptive. In general, most insurers appeared to have an interest in settling claims quickly and fairly within the boundaries of their contracts. In order to achieve good will, I have seen insurers pay for losses(food replacement, etc.) that were not legitimatly covered under the policy. During this period, one of the most difficult aspects of my job was explaining coverage to the insureds. After grad school, I took a three week, 120-hour course on policy coverage, after which I felt as though I had obtained an acceptable level of understanding on how to interpret property coverage language. Yet, on many occasions thereafter, I made mistakes. It soon became evident that the vast majority of policy holders had an extremely limited knowledge of their coverages. Not surprising, given that they do not take three week courses. In 100% of the scenarios in which I have adjusted losses, the insureds were either surprised to learn that some portion of their property was not covered or limited to some degree below that which they understood to be limited. Prior to 2004 however, these situations did not typically result in tragic outcomes for the insureds. In each instance, I encouraged the insureds to contact their agents for clarification and recommendations for updating or upgrading their coverages.
Unfortunately, beginning with the four hurricanes in 2004, claims adjusting practices have changed dramatically. Suddenly, roofs, carpets, awnings, and a litany of other trades are no longer allowed to be considered for Overhead and Profit by many insurers. Taxes and O&P are no longer are part of the calculation for ACV. We \”negotiate\” different prices with individual insureds as if we were purchasing an automobile. My neighbor might have been paid $1400 per Square for the same roof that I was only allowed $900 from the same insurer. To my astonishment, I have come to know that most of the claims that I have adjusted were estimated with a price database that is 70-110% below actual market pricing. And worse, these people who I left \”knowing\” that I had worked diligently to find all the coverage available to them, were taking the proceeds of those claims and settling for those amounts. The majority had no inclination that they had alternatives or could file supplements or dispute in any manner, the amounts of the settlements.
Needless to say, after two years of struggling with the ever increasing restraints and borderline illegal practices to which I was forced to impose on these uninformed consumers, I resigned my position as an independent adjuster.
In December of 2005, I opened a public adjusting firm in South Florida. Now, we experience on a daily basis the abhorrent practices of insurance companies and those adjusters who represent them. Understand that it is my position that there are companies that handle their claims quickly, precisely, and professional in total compliance with the contract. However, those companies are in the vast minority. Last week, we filed a Civil Remedy on behalf of one of our clents siting 19 violations of statutes by one of the largest insurers in the state. My firm is representing over 300 clients currently and this is our current statistical compilation:
287 claims open in excess of 180 days.
143 in violation of at least five Florida statutes relating to adjusting practices.
These numbers represent staggering figures. On the average, we collect 293% more money from the insurance companies than was estimated originally and we achieve this by using the same adjusting practices that I have used for six years.
Mr. Poe, on behalf of those in this profession who take pride in said profession, I will apologize on behalf of these representatives of our industry, who with obvious disdain and disregard for the wide-spread consequences of their arrogance and flagrantly, biased disrespect for their insureds, contractors, attorneys or any others who oppose or even call into question their righteousness, honor, or the finality of their opinions. Their defensive, territorial chest-beating and sophomoric, belittling statements are a clear indication of exactly why consumers need protection. Whether or not your business practices are ethical is completely beyond my discernment; however, I appreciate your seemingly sincere interest and dedication to making a difference in our industry.
Tuesday, May 16, 2006
Mark,
You want to, carefully, consider the information at the following link, and then consider the rest of the commentary;
http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/bulletins/b-0045-8.html
1. The ACV amount should reflect primary-general contractor replacement costs…depreciated.
Why so?
Replacement costs, depreciated, will NOT have primary-general-specialty contractor business overhead and profit loss values MISSING, unless a insurer can figure out somehow (indemnification and premium value wise) to estimate the future replacement procedures and costs of a covered structure without [typical and historical] primary-general contactors\’ involvement.
(It would be a neat trick if a structure could \”poof\” into existence).
Sooooo, whether a ACV (actual cash value policy) OR a RCV (replacement cost value) policy, the proper measure for ACV math is–[Primary-General] Contractor RCV minus Depreciation = ACV.
2. State Farm admitted the overhead and profit was part of the loss value by necessarily disclosing it in the DEPRECIATED ACV math.
However, by NOT keeping RCV / ACV values proportionally whole, and in proper order, the ACV loss value \”budget\” is greatly reduced (twice) on the front end.
(Once by ommitting Contractor O&P as part of Replacement Costs, and again by the ACV 10% profit line not equaling 10% of the costs above it).
Check out how much more the insured would have to work with;
$10,103.19 Sub-Total
$ 114.67 Material Tax
_________________________
$10,217.86 Sub-sub total
$ 1,021.79 10% Overhead
_________________________
$11,239.65 Total
$ 1,123.97 10% Profit
_________________________
$12,363.62 Basic Business Math Grand Total
$10,217.86 State Farm Math Grand Total
$12,363.62 Basic Business Math Grand Total
$ 2,607.44 Minus Depreciation
__________________________
$ 9,756.18 Basic Business Math ACV
$ 2,272.00 Minus Deductible
__________________________
$ 7,484.18 Net Basic Business Math ACV
$ 6,860.50 Minus State Farm Net ACV Math
__________________________
$ 623.68 ACV Dollar Difference
Depreciating the ACTUAL Contractor replacement cost loss value sum, would have favored the insured by hundreds and hundred of dollars.
Now why would that approach be fair to insureds?
To factoring a true 10% profit margin would favor the insured. (If the profit line sum does not equal 10% of the total replacement cost above it, it reaaaalllly isn\’t 10% value, is it Mark)?
(A [cool] math trick IF you want ones to walk away, not notice, or attempt to work with synthetic ACV loss values, while (the insurer) keeps the balance in the bank.
Look at it this way Mark, a uninsured property has [ALL typical contractors involved] business costs built into its creation, or PLACEMENT.
In heirarchal contractor order, the primary-general contractor is first and foremost, with all other sub-contractors used by the investing contractor to PLACE a structure.
To to calculate the replacement cost of the said placed structure, an insurance agent could ask the primary-general contractor for ALL structural construction costs from A-Z. Or they could purchase and reference MS/B type construction component data to estimate the structure\’s replacement costs. Or use a square foot / zip code based software program.
However they figure replacement costs of a structure, unless a structure can poof into place, there is no skirting of accounting for ALL TYPICAL / HISTORICAL CONSTRUCTION REPLACEMENT (RCV) COST values in either ACV or RCV policies.
ACV policies are usually cheaper because the actual cash value of the aged loss components will be the future payment schedule for loss values, and not replacement cost value.
Claiming, during the estimating of claims, that ALL contractors overhead and profit costs, factored by the agent, and reflected in premiums, are suddenly and mysteriously NOT part of predetermined replacement costs creates systhetic RCV / ACV loss values prepaid for, should a loss occur.
Here\’s the summary Mark:
1. Insurance agent estimates replacement costs of structure that real world construction estimating requires.
2. Insurers can acknowledge those apples-for-apples indemnified replacement costs when settling claims, or not.
Pretending ALL Contractors business cost values are not part of every square inch of single or multiple trade work loss claim value smacks of an illegal financial shell game…no?
Collecting premium for which loss may never be paid is illegal windfall…no?
Knowing depreciated replacement cost (ACV) values contain ALL Contractors replacement cost value pieces, then not disclosing those values IN PROPER ORDER, when adjusters estimate loss claim values, is fiducial unfairness to insureds…no?
rogerpoegc@yahoo.com
P.S.
Although this does not really matter in true ACV loss math factoring, that should always reflect true depreciated RCV loss values, it is a replacement cost policy Mark.