INSURANCE COMPANIES DIDN\’T GET WHERE THEY ARE BECAUSE THEY TAKE BAD BETS. I HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH CARDIOMYOPATHY. I WELCOME ANYONE TO LOCATE THE A COMPANY THAT WILL WRITE A HEALTH POLICY FOR ANYONE WITH THIS CONDITION. THIS IS NOT CAUSED BY SMOKING, DRINKING OR OTHERWISE. IT IS A RESULT OF AN ERROR FROM A DENTAL EXTRACTION. IT HAS BEEN 13 YEARS SINCE WE WERE DROPPED FOR A PRE-EXISTING CONDITION AND IT HAS BEEN IMPOSSIBLE TO OBTAIN INSURANCE. HOSPITALS HAVE ONCE BEFORE WIPED US OUT YET WE KEEP ON GOING. WHAT OTHER CHOICE DO WE HAVE IF THE SYSTEM IS NOT PROPERLY HANDLED.SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUT EVERYONE ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD. MY RECENT TWO DAY STAY COST 50K FOR AN APPENDECTOMY.
GHEINECKE,
I take it that you will get declined because of medical underwriting on an individual plan? Are you in business? Do you have your own agency? What is you roll in the insurance business or did you happen to stumble across this by doing a web search? If you check out the following website, it gives you a choice of coverage options, even for those who cannot get insurance due to medical condition. Please keep in mind, a for profit insurance company loses big time if they take an individual who has pre-existing conditions for $5k a year, then turn around and pay 50k in medical costs. However, some special programs that force a company by law to take the uninsurable. The bottom line is, the healthy people in such a pool pay more in order to cover those with cronic conditions, thus we much be appreciate of these options. Here is the link of your options: http://www.coverageforall.org/
Yes, IndAgent there are a lot of irresponsible people out there. I have been so responsible all of my life that Real Estate Bankers have to check my FIFO twice to make sure it is real. Some of them even say they didn\’t know they went that high. Until a few years ago I had never had a speeding ticket. I have never been locked up in jail, even overnight, that is if you don\’t count the Navy brig in Yokosuka.
Now all of this does not make me an example of an outstanding person. It makes me a lucky person. I just happened to have enough money to always pay my bills. True I didn\’t byte off more commitments than I could afford. I was lucky there too. I had a wife that kept me in line. I didn\’t get speeding tickets because I was very very lucky when I was young. My closest friends would tell you that I rarely drove my Mach 1, 428 cid Mustang under the speed limit. There were also times in my life when I rarely drove home sober, but I never collected a DWI. I could also believe that I was more than lucky there. Not getting a DWI or being involved in a crash driving while so inebriated that I could not remember most of the night would be enough to make anyone believe in a divine being.
I could go on and on with this. Oh, yes I have insurance too. That makes me responsible. The truth is that is mostly luck too. I retired from the Navy, and have Tricare. I am 65 years old so I am on Medicare. Just before he left office President Clinton signed a decree that gave retired military people Tricare for life when they became 65 and went on Medicare. That means Tricare became my secondary insurance and picked up the costs that Medicare did not. More important it also pays for all of my drug costs, after small co-pay. Now you might say I deserve all of that, but I really think I was just awful lucky.
What I am trying to say is that I could have very easily not have been so lucky. I could have not ended up with enough money to pay my bills. I could have easily lost my driver’s license. It would have been very easy to get in trouble in the Navy, and I would not have been able to retire after twenty years, with a twenty-year record of good conduct.
The system worked for me. It sounds like it worked for you too. There is no denying that the system for providing medical care does not work for everyone. Because it does not work for everyone, our emergency rooms are in gridlock. Because it does not work, we have hospitals issuing these bills that mean if you have insurance your insurer pays one fourth of it, but if you don\’t you pay it all. We have situations where they may go after the person for the whole thing, or give them a small discount, or not pursue them at all and write it off on their taxes. With this kind of mixed signals how can we blame people for not being responsible.
Our system for paying for medical care has to work for everyone. Before WW II most people paid their own medical bills. Two of my wife\’s prized possessions were two hand written hospital bills. One was the bill when her mother gave birth to her in the hospital. It totaled $61.85. She was in the hospital for five days. My wife\’s father had to pay it off in two payments. The other bill was when my wife\’s appendix was removed. That cost $52.55.
I don\’t think anyone realized what making insurance available to the employees of their company would eventually make our entire medical care system unworkable. The problem is that it never was designed as a system. There were little parts here and there that were all kind of collected together. It is a little like the horse that was designed by a committee. It turned out to be a camel.
I guess what I am trying to say is that IndAgent and I are doing well in this system, if you can call it that, but I thing we must admit that many others are not. We must put a real system together soon, or it will destroy medical care for everyone.
IndAgent I hope this helps you understand why this is not just a case of personal responsibility. By the way what the heck is an IndAgent anyway?
I have personal experience with a lab and hospital committing what can only be described as fraudulent billing. I\’m sure it goes on all the time since insurers aren\’t likely to notice, but could explain some unreasonably high bills.
1) Girlfriend needed a simple blood titre. Lab runs the titre and then 2 blots at $100 each. The blots aren\’t on the order and she didn\’t ask for them. Response #1: the blots were ordered (which she proved a lie by getting a copy of the order) Response #2: we always do the blots if the titre is positive. Her question at that point was, \”how can you charge me for tests that weren\’t ordered or authorized? Response #3: we don\’t do a titre by itself (i.e., we don\’t have the capability to do just what was ordered). That bill was paid to avoid collections, but they will be taken to small claims court to recover the $200.
2) Girlfriend is a nursing student (so she knows what she\’s talking about). We had to go to an ER on a Sunday morning on vacation b/c she was having an obvious reaction to a med she was on. The triage nurse didn\’t even have to ask, it was so obvious. There were no records to review. The doc might have taken 2 minutes to look up the common drug in a PDR, but spent literally 3 minutes w/ my girlfriend and never even LOOKED at her skin. Also said she couldn\’t change meds. (Fortunately, doc at home was perfectly capable of doing so and called in a new rx from 1000 miles away.) When the bill came, it was for a Level III ER Eval & mgmt. After disputing the coding of the bill over the last 7 months, they have given us a BS explanation about how they\’re right, but because they\’re nice, they\’ll cut the bill in half. The charge is reasonable now, but she\’s still tempted not to pay until they admit they coded it wrong, whether by \”mistake\” or not.
Like I said, if she were insured, I\’m sure these bills would have been paid w/o question.
Laws should not be based on one person\’s experience and how they think they got ripped off, law should be based on what is best for the common good of society. It is amazing how people think they know the macro economic impact based on their visit to the ER. Get over your own personal $10 loss and let\’s talk the real issues. The real issue is that if nobody paid doctors and nobody has insurance, these services would not be available. Lipitor was not invented in 5 minutes, it took a huge investment and dedication from fine individuals. The net result is that it did not only make life better for millions, it helped them extend their life. Quit crying about the small stuff and look at the big picture.
IndAgent, you are either the meanest person in the world or really really uninformed. Has it not occured to you that people may not have health insurance due to no fault of their own? People have lost their jobs to outsourcing, aquisitions, mergers, accidents at work, becoming ill with a chronic disease and many other reasons that a person has no control over. All uninsured people are not deadbeats or illegal immigrants. What would happen to you if you lost your job or became too ill to work? Do you see my point here or are you just too ignorant to understand? Man, your karma is bad.
Well said. I agree whether you have insurance or not is largely a matter of circumstance, luck, age, health, past decisions, ability to pay premiums and so on. However, the pricing end of our medical system is crooked and dishonest. The providers hire pricing contractors to \”game\” the system to keep pushing up the acceptable costs. They need patients who can or will pay the higher level tier of costs in order to legitimize those costs. God help you if you have to be one of those patients. That lies somewhere between outright theft and extortion. There are people who used to run a company named ENRON who are on trial today for much less.
What did I ever do to you? to treat me or my son in the way you have?
But, I can see that hour relationship is on the mend, and for that! You will be invited to my next milk party.
I hope you like pins your tails.
[HCA] Good Samaritan Hospital, San Jose, CA., this really is a beautiful silver left radial-ulna wrist-pin set.
The Appraisal Foundation say\’s it will Increase\’s in value from disuse. I admit it is not the best position possible, but I am kind of stuck with it. …now aint I?
Ernie,
I am not as fortunate as you, you have it all wrong. For half of my adult life, I did everything irresponsibly. Eventually things hit home that life was more of a hassle and a challenged doing things irresponsibly than responsibly. It was easier not taking those extra vacations, not buying the real nice car, and prioritizing my spending on things that I need, not things that I want. I know realize the huge dividends from this. I am no longer embarrassed by stupid things anymore, bad credit, not paying bills, etc. I have a huge sense of pride and people treat me with respect. Before, they would say \”you clown,\” now I get the royal treatment and they say \”It is a pleasure doing business with you.\” Businesses, Doctors, and others don\’t want to deal with flakes, they will blow you off. But when they know you are responsible, they will do everything possible to see that you are welcome back again.
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INSURANCE COMPANIES DIDN\’T GET WHERE THEY ARE BECAUSE THEY TAKE BAD BETS. I HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH CARDIOMYOPATHY. I WELCOME ANYONE TO LOCATE THE A COMPANY THAT WILL WRITE A HEALTH POLICY FOR ANYONE WITH THIS CONDITION. THIS IS NOT CAUSED BY SMOKING, DRINKING OR OTHERWISE. IT IS A RESULT OF AN ERROR FROM A DENTAL EXTRACTION. IT HAS BEEN 13 YEARS SINCE WE WERE DROPPED FOR A PRE-EXISTING CONDITION AND IT HAS BEEN IMPOSSIBLE TO OBTAIN INSURANCE. HOSPITALS HAVE ONCE BEFORE WIPED US OUT YET WE KEEP ON GOING. WHAT OTHER CHOICE DO WE HAVE IF THE SYSTEM IS NOT PROPERLY HANDLED.SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUT EVERYONE ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD. MY RECENT TWO DAY STAY COST 50K FOR AN APPENDECTOMY.
GHEINECKE,
I take it that you will get declined because of medical underwriting on an individual plan? Are you in business? Do you have your own agency? What is you roll in the insurance business or did you happen to stumble across this by doing a web search? If you check out the following website, it gives you a choice of coverage options, even for those who cannot get insurance due to medical condition. Please keep in mind, a for profit insurance company loses big time if they take an individual who has pre-existing conditions for $5k a year, then turn around and pay 50k in medical costs. However, some special programs that force a company by law to take the uninsurable. The bottom line is, the healthy people in such a pool pay more in order to cover those with cronic conditions, thus we much be appreciate of these options. Here is the link of your options:
http://www.coverageforall.org/
Yes, IndAgent there are a lot of irresponsible people out there. I have been so responsible all of my life that Real Estate Bankers have to check my FIFO twice to make sure it is real. Some of them even say they didn\’t know they went that high. Until a few years ago I had never had a speeding ticket. I have never been locked up in jail, even overnight, that is if you don\’t count the Navy brig in Yokosuka.
Now all of this does not make me an example of an outstanding person. It makes me a lucky person. I just happened to have enough money to always pay my bills. True I didn\’t byte off more commitments than I could afford. I was lucky there too. I had a wife that kept me in line. I didn\’t get speeding tickets because I was very very lucky when I was young. My closest friends would tell you that I rarely drove my Mach 1, 428 cid Mustang under the speed limit. There were also times in my life when I rarely drove home sober, but I never collected a DWI. I could also believe that I was more than lucky there. Not getting a DWI or being involved in a crash driving while so inebriated that I could not remember most of the night would be enough to make anyone believe in a divine being.
I could go on and on with this. Oh, yes I have insurance too. That makes me responsible. The truth is that is mostly luck too. I retired from the Navy, and have Tricare. I am 65 years old so I am on Medicare. Just before he left office President Clinton signed a decree that gave retired military people Tricare for life when they became 65 and went on Medicare. That means Tricare became my secondary insurance and picked up the costs that Medicare did not. More important it also pays for all of my drug costs, after small co-pay. Now you might say I deserve all of that, but I really think I was just awful lucky.
What I am trying to say is that I could have very easily not have been so lucky. I could have not ended up with enough money to pay my bills. I could have easily lost my driver’s license. It would have been very easy to get in trouble in the Navy, and I would not have been able to retire after twenty years, with a twenty-year record of good conduct.
The system worked for me. It sounds like it worked for you too. There is no denying that the system for providing medical care does not work for everyone. Because it does not work for everyone, our emergency rooms are in gridlock. Because it does not work, we have hospitals issuing these bills that mean if you have insurance your insurer pays one fourth of it, but if you don\’t you pay it all. We have situations where they may go after the person for the whole thing, or give them a small discount, or not pursue them at all and write it off on their taxes. With this kind of mixed signals how can we blame people for not being responsible.
Our system for paying for medical care has to work for everyone. Before WW II most people paid their own medical bills. Two of my wife\’s prized possessions were two hand written hospital bills. One was the bill when her mother gave birth to her in the hospital. It totaled $61.85. She was in the hospital for five days. My wife\’s father had to pay it off in two payments. The other bill was when my wife\’s appendix was removed. That cost $52.55.
I don\’t think anyone realized what making insurance available to the employees of their company would eventually make our entire medical care system unworkable. The problem is that it never was designed as a system. There were little parts here and there that were all kind of collected together. It is a little like the horse that was designed by a committee. It turned out to be a camel.
I guess what I am trying to say is that IndAgent and I are doing well in this system, if you can call it that, but I thing we must admit that many others are not. We must put a real system together soon, or it will destroy medical care for everyone.
IndAgent I hope this helps you understand why this is not just a case of personal responsibility. By the way what the heck is an IndAgent anyway?
I have personal experience with a lab and hospital committing what can only be described as fraudulent billing. I\’m sure it goes on all the time since insurers aren\’t likely to notice, but could explain some unreasonably high bills.
1) Girlfriend needed a simple blood titre. Lab runs the titre and then 2 blots at $100 each. The blots aren\’t on the order and she didn\’t ask for them. Response #1: the blots were ordered (which she proved a lie by getting a copy of the order) Response #2: we always do the blots if the titre is positive. Her question at that point was, \”how can you charge me for tests that weren\’t ordered or authorized? Response #3: we don\’t do a titre by itself (i.e., we don\’t have the capability to do just what was ordered). That bill was paid to avoid collections, but they will be taken to small claims court to recover the $200.
2) Girlfriend is a nursing student (so she knows what she\’s talking about). We had to go to an ER on a Sunday morning on vacation b/c she was having an obvious reaction to a med she was on. The triage nurse didn\’t even have to ask, it was so obvious. There were no records to review. The doc might have taken 2 minutes to look up the common drug in a PDR, but spent literally 3 minutes w/ my girlfriend and never even LOOKED at her skin. Also said she couldn\’t change meds. (Fortunately, doc at home was perfectly capable of doing so and called in a new rx from 1000 miles away.) When the bill came, it was for a Level III ER Eval & mgmt. After disputing the coding of the bill over the last 7 months, they have given us a BS explanation about how they\’re right, but because they\’re nice, they\’ll cut the bill in half. The charge is reasonable now, but she\’s still tempted not to pay until they admit they coded it wrong, whether by \”mistake\” or not.
Like I said, if she were insured, I\’m sure these bills would have been paid w/o question.
Laws should not be based on one person\’s experience and how they think they got ripped off, law should be based on what is best for the common good of society. It is amazing how people think they know the macro economic impact based on their visit to the ER. Get over your own personal $10 loss and let\’s talk the real issues. The real issue is that if nobody paid doctors and nobody has insurance, these services would not be available. Lipitor was not invented in 5 minutes, it took a huge investment and dedication from fine individuals. The net result is that it did not only make life better for millions, it helped them extend their life. Quit crying about the small stuff and look at the big picture.
IndAgent, you are either the meanest person in the world or really really uninformed. Has it not occured to you that people may not have health insurance due to no fault of their own? People have lost their jobs to outsourcing, aquisitions, mergers, accidents at work, becoming ill with a chronic disease and many other reasons that a person has no control over. All uninsured people are not deadbeats or illegal immigrants. What would happen to you if you lost your job or became too ill to work? Do you see my point here or are you just too ignorant to understand? Man, your karma is bad.
Well said. I agree whether you have insurance or not is largely a matter of circumstance, luck, age, health, past decisions, ability to pay premiums and so on. However, the pricing end of our medical system is crooked and dishonest. The providers hire pricing contractors to \”game\” the system to keep pushing up the acceptable costs. They need patients who can or will pay the higher level tier of costs in order to legitimize those costs. God help you if you have to be one of those patients. That lies somewhere between outright theft and extortion. There are people who used to run a company named ENRON who are on trial today for much less.
Health Net, Why can\’t we be friends?
A few of my qualities match up somewhat to yours.
What did I ever do to you? to treat me or my son in the way you have?
But, I can see that hour relationship is on the mend, and for that! You will be invited to my next milk party.
I hope you like pins your tails.
[HCA] Good Samaritan Hospital, San Jose, CA., this really is a beautiful silver left radial-ulna wrist-pin set.
The Appraisal Foundation say\’s it will Increase\’s in value from disuse. I admit it is not the best position possible, but I am kind of stuck with it. …now aint I?
But, what the heck…like a stuck record jamed.
Ernie,
I am not as fortunate as you, you have it all wrong. For half of my adult life, I did everything irresponsibly. Eventually things hit home that life was more of a hassle and a challenged doing things irresponsibly than responsibly. It was easier not taking those extra vacations, not buying the real nice car, and prioritizing my spending on things that I need, not things that I want. I know realize the huge dividends from this. I am no longer embarrassed by stupid things anymore, bad credit, not paying bills, etc. I have a huge sense of pride and people treat me with respect. Before, they would say \”you clown,\” now I get the royal treatment and they say \”It is a pleasure doing business with you.\” Businesses, Doctors, and others don\’t want to deal with flakes, they will blow you off. But when they know you are responsible, they will do everything possible to see that you are welcome back again.
How come nobody is listening to me. I posted two days ago and I demand a response. I am tired of people ignoring me.