Here’s another example of “too little, too late.” Southern California has, and always will be a virtual tinderbox. Southern California never gets enough rain and never will. Brush fires have, and always will be an annual phenomenon. So why hasn’t anyone developed a plan to PREVENT things from getting out of hand like they are now? What’s needed is a an “immediate response plan” that would mobilize LARGE firefighting aircraft to soak an area when the fire is still SMALL, not wait several days until it gets out of control. Think of the magnitude of human and ecomonic resources that have been wasted, yes wasted, trying to control this fire without success. Property losses will be in the hundreds of millions. The cost of mobilizing a task force would certainly be cost-justified. Like the song says “it never rains in sourthern California….”.
Having just moved to California from the Midwest, I have to differ with you Ohioan. The larger planes can’t fly during winds that gust to 100 miles. Plus, many of the fires start in canyons where the terrain is even tougher to traverse with the larger planes needed to soak the land. I watched them try to soak some areas from higher up only to see the water blown completely away from the fires. Unfortunately, water does not land with the same precision we assume with the missile technology of today.
Natural disasters are not always easy to predict and reacting to them is often thwarted by the realities of conditions. Next time a flood hits Ohio, ask yourself the question of why levees and sand dams weren’t built faster when it was known several days in advance that the rivers would flow over the edge? Can’t always be done on a moments notice when the floods are already rising.
Californian: As I mentioned, they’ve know about this problem for decades and have yet to develop an appropriate response. I don’t think your Ohio flooding analogy is on point i.e a few days notice.
Just last evening a spokesman for the firefighters said on national TV that if they had more aerial support earlier they could have contained this blaze. CA needs an EARLY response plan because this is going to continue to happen. As an insurance claims professional I find it disturbing that good money continues to thrown after bad paying millions for some things that may be preventalbe, or at least, mitigated. Good luck in “happyland”.
To Ohioan … You really have no clue what you are talking about and your comments reflect that. Even the best laid plans are sometimes not enough. There are plans in place but when things are happening so fast and furious and over such a large area … well, enough said. I’ll never convince you – after all, I’ve only lived in CA for 49 years and know what I’m talking about … how long did you live here ????? I guess all Californians deserve what we are currently enduring. Don’t worry, Ohioan, we won’t ask you for help or to even feel bad for us – we just prefer that “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all”. People here are in pain, we just ask that you respect that – that’s just plain old decent behavior.
And to Californian – you are right on AND your analogy is too !!!!!
I just thank God that injuries and deaths were kept to a minimum – guess something went right !!!!! With the magnitude of these fires, the number of people working them and the number of civilians affected by them one would think there would have been far more injuries – but, guess saving lives is just “throwing good money after bad”.
Ohioan ….. Your sarcasm smells worse than the smoke – this is “happyland” and we will survive. DJ is right – we want NOTHING from you other than for you to respect the pain thousands of your fellow human beings are feeling. The best way you can respect that is to sign off.
Shouldn’t steps be taken to prevent these losses? Homes made from nonflammable materials? Master plans that take into account which way the fires flow so that fires don’t spread so easily? Removal of undergrowth through which fires spread, at least in areas where real property and lives are endangered? (oh thats right – the environmentalists love to live in the sticks but won’t remove any). How about zoning so that homes arent built in extreme fire zones? I consider these solutions to be a part of basic infrastructure for any given reason. And I consider these things to be something handled on a local or state level. Not a federal level. Why?
Because who knows better than locals how best to protect themselves? Of course, after reading postings here the Californians sound proud that they once again let there homes burn down. I hope you all hold your local government responsible for the fallout from years of neglect of this predictable and I am sure solvable problem. Not much educational value in the second kick of a mule (I love that analogy). Your state was bankrupt a few years ago and Arnold miraculously bailed you out. You were bankrupt in part becuase you gave away too much to too many in the way of social programs and didnt take care of infrastructure, just like most cities on both coasts. Don’t be surprised when your infrastructure lets you down – you let it down.
Deb and DJ: I’d expect nothing more from native Californians. I feel badly for the people who are suffering. It’s the bureaucracy there that I find lacking. Elected officials are supposed to act in the best interests of the citizenry BEFORE a disaster occurs. Particularly when it’s a know probability. This is an insurance blog and PREVENTION is a legitimate issue. I’ll excuse your myoptic barrage because of the the current stress you’re under. Good luck.
if you have never been through one of the southlands notorious ‘santa anas’ you would never understand. there was nothing that could be done in advance. the santa ana winds can whip up from 0 to 70 mph in a space of 15 minutes. the temperature rises from 50 to 85 degrees in a matter of one hour. the speed with which this happens is unbelievable. there is no advance warning! hence, there is little time to mobilize emergency forces. people who have never been in a santa ana cannot conceive how fast it comes up. the people realize their obligations to trim back shrubs,etc, but when something of this magnitude hits it is like Katrina, there is nothing one can do. if you follow the news reports, at least we responded with all resources available, in contrast to Katrina, where all their governor did was stand around and cuss out the president of united states. it is nice to ‘monday morning’ quarterback but if you do not know what you are talking about, just shut up and be thought the fool. you have opened your mouth and removed all doubt.
To those of us now living in California, I agree, it is time to recover, fix what we can, and move on. To those who want to say “we should have known about it and planned ahead,” what words do you have for every other part of the country when a disaster hits…”gee – should have known that was coming.” Heck, no one should live in Florida, we know hurricanes are coming. Can’t live in the states of OK, MO, KS because of tornados and hail. Oh shoot, that’s pretty much all of the midwest. Can’t they just build more sturdy houses and better roofs?
And since I recently saw those tragic floods in Ohio occur, I will repeat myself, why weren’t they better prepared with better levees? No – actually I’m NOT going to ask that because the cost and reality is too much and unrealistic to expect. Mother nature has more resources than we do when it comes to CAT management. I didn’t question the fine people of Ohio who chose to live on (or near) a river that is expected to flood every xx years. (Hence the flood plains and why we have flood insurance.)
I think people are missing the point that MANY homes were saved due to forward thinking and building home with concrete roofs and making sure brush was away from there home. But sorry that a fire that is more than a couple miles wide and burning completely out of control decided to ignore the building code and engulfed everything in its path.
Only two (that I know of) died in this tragic event. That is saying a lot for the preparedness of the Californians for PROPER evacuation and people who listened AND obviously knew what to do. Over 500,000 people evacuating…not an easy thing to do!
My guess is we are ALL in the insurance business, and guess what, the reality is, most of the money for home insurance is for CAT and weather management, not on the every day fires and thefts.
Gill – Many of the homes that burned have been standing for years – new construction has carried higher restictions for years.
The majority of the homes in these fires are NOT in areas where there is an extreme fire danger – sure, some were, but not the majority. The majority of these fires are in regular cities – not the mountains or canyons.
And, gee thanks … duh, why didn’t we think of clearing underbrush away from homes ??? For your information, homeowners in the brush areas are required to clear out and are fined if they don’t.
Weather conditions are not within our control. I’m glad you must be able to control which way the winds blow at any given time, perhaps you can come teach us how to do that. The fires travel the way the winds blow it – that is part of the problem with these fires – it would be moving one way, and with no warning, reverse and go another. How in the world is that predictable ???? You seem to think you have the answers, please do share.
The citizens aren’t blaming anyone, we understand this is part of the risk of life. Do not listen to our liberal politicians crying the blues, they don’t represent the majority of our citizens.
The majority of the citizens here are sick of the social programs and tired of funding them … that’s not just on a state level – that’s federal as well. We don’t like giving our hard earned tax dollars away to support those who come here and don’t work but collect all that is given, but that’s a whole nother issue that has nothing to do with these fires.
You are wrong in many of your assumptions, but the biggest thing that you are wrong about, Gill, is that we are proud that our houses have burned down. WHAT KIND OF MORONIC STATEMENT IS THAT ??????
It is totally incomprehensble to me that anyone could make such an idiotic statement, especially when so many are suffering so much. I wish I could have that mentality, perhaps I would be able to sleep at night instead of lying awake trying to figure out how I can help my fellow citizens.
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Here’s another example of “too little, too late.” Southern California has, and always will be a virtual tinderbox. Southern California never gets enough rain and never will. Brush fires have, and always will be an annual phenomenon. So why hasn’t anyone developed a plan to PREVENT things from getting out of hand like they are now? What’s needed is a an “immediate response plan” that would mobilize LARGE firefighting aircraft to soak an area when the fire is still SMALL, not wait several days until it gets out of control. Think of the magnitude of human and ecomonic resources that have been wasted, yes wasted, trying to control this fire without success. Property losses will be in the hundreds of millions. The cost of mobilizing a task force would certainly be cost-justified. Like the song says “it never rains in sourthern California….”.
Having just moved to California from the Midwest, I have to differ with you Ohioan. The larger planes can’t fly during winds that gust to 100 miles. Plus, many of the fires start in canyons where the terrain is even tougher to traverse with the larger planes needed to soak the land. I watched them try to soak some areas from higher up only to see the water blown completely away from the fires. Unfortunately, water does not land with the same precision we assume with the missile technology of today.
Natural disasters are not always easy to predict and reacting to them is often thwarted by the realities of conditions. Next time a flood hits Ohio, ask yourself the question of why levees and sand dams weren’t built faster when it was known several days in advance that the rivers would flow over the edge? Can’t always be done on a moments notice when the floods are already rising.
Californian: As I mentioned, they’ve know about this problem for decades and have yet to develop an appropriate response. I don’t think your Ohio flooding analogy is on point i.e a few days notice.
Just last evening a spokesman for the firefighters said on national TV that if they had more aerial support earlier they could have contained this blaze. CA needs an EARLY response plan because this is going to continue to happen. As an insurance claims professional I find it disturbing that good money continues to thrown after bad paying millions for some things that may be preventalbe, or at least, mitigated. Good luck in “happyland”.
To Ohioan … You really have no clue what you are talking about and your comments reflect that. Even the best laid plans are sometimes not enough. There are plans in place but when things are happening so fast and furious and over such a large area … well, enough said. I’ll never convince you – after all, I’ve only lived in CA for 49 years and know what I’m talking about … how long did you live here ????? I guess all Californians deserve what we are currently enduring. Don’t worry, Ohioan, we won’t ask you for help or to even feel bad for us – we just prefer that “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all”. People here are in pain, we just ask that you respect that – that’s just plain old decent behavior.
And to Californian – you are right on AND your analogy is too !!!!!
I just thank God that injuries and deaths were kept to a minimum – guess something went right !!!!! With the magnitude of these fires, the number of people working them and the number of civilians affected by them one would think there would have been far more injuries – but, guess saving lives is just “throwing good money after bad”.
Ohioan ….. Your sarcasm smells worse than the smoke – this is “happyland” and we will survive. DJ is right – we want NOTHING from you other than for you to respect the pain thousands of your fellow human beings are feeling. The best way you can respect that is to sign off.
Shouldn’t steps be taken to prevent these losses? Homes made from nonflammable materials? Master plans that take into account which way the fires flow so that fires don’t spread so easily? Removal of undergrowth through which fires spread, at least in areas where real property and lives are endangered? (oh thats right – the environmentalists love to live in the sticks but won’t remove any). How about zoning so that homes arent built in extreme fire zones? I consider these solutions to be a part of basic infrastructure for any given reason. And I consider these things to be something handled on a local or state level. Not a federal level. Why?
Because who knows better than locals how best to protect themselves? Of course, after reading postings here the Californians sound proud that they once again let there homes burn down. I hope you all hold your local government responsible for the fallout from years of neglect of this predictable and I am sure solvable problem. Not much educational value in the second kick of a mule (I love that analogy). Your state was bankrupt a few years ago and Arnold miraculously bailed you out. You were bankrupt in part becuase you gave away too much to too many in the way of social programs and didnt take care of infrastructure, just like most cities on both coasts. Don’t be surprised when your infrastructure lets you down – you let it down.
Deb and DJ: I’d expect nothing more from native Californians. I feel badly for the people who are suffering. It’s the bureaucracy there that I find lacking. Elected officials are supposed to act in the best interests of the citizenry BEFORE a disaster occurs. Particularly when it’s a know probability. This is an insurance blog and PREVENTION is a legitimate issue. I’ll excuse your myoptic barrage because of the the current stress you’re under. Good luck.
if you have never been through one of the southlands notorious ‘santa anas’ you would never understand. there was nothing that could be done in advance. the santa ana winds can whip up from 0 to 70 mph in a space of 15 minutes. the temperature rises from 50 to 85 degrees in a matter of one hour. the speed with which this happens is unbelievable. there is no advance warning! hence, there is little time to mobilize emergency forces. people who have never been in a santa ana cannot conceive how fast it comes up. the people realize their obligations to trim back shrubs,etc, but when something of this magnitude hits it is like Katrina, there is nothing one can do. if you follow the news reports, at least we responded with all resources available, in contrast to Katrina, where all their governor did was stand around and cuss out the president of united states. it is nice to ‘monday morning’ quarterback but if you do not know what you are talking about, just shut up and be thought the fool. you have opened your mouth and removed all doubt.
To those of us now living in California, I agree, it is time to recover, fix what we can, and move on. To those who want to say “we should have known about it and planned ahead,” what words do you have for every other part of the country when a disaster hits…”gee – should have known that was coming.” Heck, no one should live in Florida, we know hurricanes are coming. Can’t live in the states of OK, MO, KS because of tornados and hail. Oh shoot, that’s pretty much all of the midwest. Can’t they just build more sturdy houses and better roofs?
And since I recently saw those tragic floods in Ohio occur, I will repeat myself, why weren’t they better prepared with better levees? No – actually I’m NOT going to ask that because the cost and reality is too much and unrealistic to expect. Mother nature has more resources than we do when it comes to CAT management. I didn’t question the fine people of Ohio who chose to live on (or near) a river that is expected to flood every xx years. (Hence the flood plains and why we have flood insurance.)
I think people are missing the point that MANY homes were saved due to forward thinking and building home with concrete roofs and making sure brush was away from there home. But sorry that a fire that is more than a couple miles wide and burning completely out of control decided to ignore the building code and engulfed everything in its path.
Only two (that I know of) died in this tragic event. That is saying a lot for the preparedness of the Californians for PROPER evacuation and people who listened AND obviously knew what to do. Over 500,000 people evacuating…not an easy thing to do!
My guess is we are ALL in the insurance business, and guess what, the reality is, most of the money for home insurance is for CAT and weather management, not on the every day fires and thefts.
Just my .02 cents
Gill – Many of the homes that burned have been standing for years – new construction has carried higher restictions for years.
The majority of the homes in these fires are NOT in areas where there is an extreme fire danger – sure, some were, but not the majority. The majority of these fires are in regular cities – not the mountains or canyons.
And, gee thanks … duh, why didn’t we think of clearing underbrush away from homes ??? For your information, homeowners in the brush areas are required to clear out and are fined if they don’t.
Weather conditions are not within our control. I’m glad you must be able to control which way the winds blow at any given time, perhaps you can come teach us how to do that. The fires travel the way the winds blow it – that is part of the problem with these fires – it would be moving one way, and with no warning, reverse and go another. How in the world is that predictable ???? You seem to think you have the answers, please do share.
The citizens aren’t blaming anyone, we understand this is part of the risk of life. Do not listen to our liberal politicians crying the blues, they don’t represent the majority of our citizens.
The majority of the citizens here are sick of the social programs and tired of funding them … that’s not just on a state level – that’s federal as well. We don’t like giving our hard earned tax dollars away to support those who come here and don’t work but collect all that is given, but that’s a whole nother issue that has nothing to do with these fires.
You are wrong in many of your assumptions, but the biggest thing that you are wrong about, Gill, is that we are proud that our houses have burned down. WHAT KIND OF MORONIC STATEMENT IS THAT ??????
It is totally incomprehensble to me that anyone could make such an idiotic statement, especially when so many are suffering so much. I wish I could have that mentality, perhaps I would be able to sleep at night instead of lying awake trying to figure out how I can help my fellow citizens.