I guess the moral of the story is don’t write business for any firm in Calif. unless they carry the Cadillac policy on everything. If they decline, or reduce coverage on anything; RUN! Otherwise you and your E&O carrier will be covering it. No wonder insurance costs so much in Cal.
Risk M, very good point, the problem clients who want to save every penny are not worth it. We need to send a strong messaage to these clients that the insurance agencies do now want them. That will funnel down to the most desperate, inexerienced and unethical agents. They would deserve each other!
Think I would have told the insured to go elsewhere, knowing they intended to break the law by not carrying workers’ compensation. Sounds like a Giant Red Flag
to me!!!
Ray: Why should the insurance agent be held responsible if someone didn’t get insurance. Why is that? As a consumer, and wife of permanent disabled employee, the boss did what he was to do. It’s just that HE WAS LIED TO by the PEO.
I would THINK it is the Insurance Agent/Broker/PEO’s duty to advise, and/or provide information re: WC. fault that the company they provide insurance to did not have WC Insurance. Think about it. For God sakes, it’s common knowledge (especially someone in the trucking business) that they needed WC. Do you think maybe this is just another company who rips off it’s clients and doesn’t forward monies to the WC Insurance Company? Yes, i would think that is is the agent’s fiduciary duty to advise them that they also need WC. We don’t have the full story here and I’ll bet it’s a dirty ins. company. I don’t think EMPLOYERS are as stupid as one might think. It’s the law. That’s it. So, I can tell you little stories about a lot of small business owners that were never advised that the monies that were taken right out of the employer’s business account, went right into their pockets I.E. CERTIFIED H.R. SERVICES. I’m certain you know of them. Well every week for years thjey would directly withdraw from their client and PAY WHO THEY ARE REQUIRED TO PAY. They of course did not and we are suffering because of it. $37,000 in 3 years in WC checks? gimmmie a break!! They are all finally under indictment, some already plead or already in jail, etc. BUT THE STATE OF PA MADE CERTAIN THAT THEY GOT THEIR 1 OR 3 MILLION IN state tax money that the AGENT/PEO never forwarded. As for the employer – he had no idea, NOTHING and no clue that there was no coverage. My husband, the client’s son and I are screwed for the rest of our lives because the boss did what he has done for years: Allow direct withdrawal for payroll, state tax, and WC. The PEO didn’t pay anyone – nothing. No WC checks, no medicals, nothing. Now we are left with med bills totalling over $500,000? The client (my father-in-law) paid his dues to the PEO/AGENT EVERY SINGLE WEEK. Then son gets injured (permanent RSD and subsequent brain surgery caused by the trauma of the wc injury)and we find out that there’s no coverage? I think that insurance companies have ruined our country. Destroying it completely. Think about it: Another employee was killed while driving his truck – heart attack at the wheel first day. Wife and 2 small children at home. He was 42 yrs old. Wife and children GOT NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why? because of the insurance company
It’s a disgrace that agents and the WC industry nationwide
Worker’s comp is one of the required coverages and they didn’t know that they didn’t have the coverage. Come on folks – guess California doesn’t treat its businesses as adults – need to have their hands held by everyone else. What a bunch of hooey
Well, the DOI will now come up with a written waiver for any commercial coverages not being purchased by the insured at the time any other commercial coverages are placed. If I write the health coverage, should I be liable for the employer’s failure to purchase P&C coverage for his business? The State of CA. failed to verify W.C. via the State Franchise Tax Board NOT HHR. The producer is not required to obtain a written waiver to exclude writing any coverage for a business as they are an educated buyer. The individual insurance buyer is so stupid, they must sign stating they do not want UM/UMPD. Appeal this to any court with a brain and provide the thousands of files whereby a CA. business chose to NOT purchase any other truly optional insurance coverage? When does this crap stop?
Kathy your story is a sad one but a bit misguided. 1st it is easy for you to claim that the business owner did everything they should have…..but what kind of business owner doesn’t question never receiving a policy. For example if you bought auto insurance but never received ID cards would you just have faith that you were covered? I think not.
2nd blaming the fall of America on insurance agents is a brave statement. In every profession there are a few bad apples but I don’t hear you blaming priests because some molest children or doctors who kill patients because they are not licensed or using expired products or construction workers who cut corners to save cost but then have houses collapse and kill people. Careful with your generalizations they are very dangerous.
3rd don’t blame the insurance company. It is the AGENT who is at fault, know that an insurance agent does not write a policy, it is written on a companies paper, if the company never gets the applications or issues the policy you can hardly blame them.
You put something out in the field-of- commerce, unlike your mom’s piping hot grub, then you’re at the mercy of those whom are injured more easily than you. Heck, you’re in Nebraska and munch hard-uncooked field-dried cornnuts, you never get hurt! But apparently, the pltf’s bar is a whole lot better than the defense bar…whose job is to bilk the insurance co’s into believing “their” cases are winnable and crank up a billion chargeable hours. The jurors, many times think differntly. Some are hard-nosed and some are not. You cannot compare parents with entities that sell products. Your mom is immune from your crying whenever you get colic. E-coli, rotten foodstuff, failure to label things likely to burn you. Pecuniary driven distributors are not immune. In the long run the population is better off. If it weren’t for that, then why need “completed ops or products liability” coverage or general liability policies. Take them out completely from businesses insurance policies, stop offering it, select only hard-nose jurors,and adjust the insurance workforce employment accordingly. Result, maybe more bank robberies.
Seriously you have a client with employees who against advice doesn’t purchase work comp and you still do business with them? Isn’t that a red flag that the customer is perhaps ethically challenged at best or confused at least? Do you need the commisssion that bad to keep them as a client? Guess the answer here was a resounding NO.
Insurancegal’s post did not say it was a frivolous suit, just that the amount of $$ was ridiculous. Courts continue to show a lack of common sense in awards and allowing suits to go forward. The McDonald’s suit was about a supposed lack of “Hot Liquid” warning on a cup. What a crock! I suppose if she got a cold lap from a soda spill, she would have claimed a lack of “Cold Liquid” warning on that cup too! It doesn’t take a lot of common sense to negotiate the world, but these people try to raise being a dufus to a higher level & we all get to pay for it.
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I guess the moral of the story is don’t write business for any firm in Calif. unless they carry the Cadillac policy on everything. If they decline, or reduce coverage on anything; RUN! Otherwise you and your E&O carrier will be covering it. No wonder insurance costs so much in Cal.
Risk M, very good point, the problem clients who want to save every penny are not worth it. We need to send a strong messaage to these clients that the insurance agencies do now want them. That will funnel down to the most desperate, inexerienced and unethical agents. They would deserve each other!
Think I would have told the insured to go elsewhere, knowing they intended to break the law by not carrying workers’ compensation. Sounds like a Giant Red Flag
to me!!!
Ray: Why should the insurance agent be held responsible if someone didn’t get insurance. Why is that? As a consumer, and wife of permanent disabled employee, the boss did what he was to do. It’s just that HE WAS LIED TO by the PEO.
I would THINK it is the Insurance Agent/Broker/PEO’s duty to advise, and/or provide information re: WC. fault that the company they provide insurance to did not have WC Insurance. Think about it. For God sakes, it’s common knowledge (especially someone in the trucking business) that they needed WC. Do you think maybe this is just another company who rips off it’s clients and doesn’t forward monies to the WC Insurance Company? Yes, i would think that is is the agent’s fiduciary duty to advise them that they also need WC. We don’t have the full story here and I’ll bet it’s a dirty ins. company. I don’t think EMPLOYERS are as stupid as one might think. It’s the law. That’s it. So, I can tell you little stories about a lot of small business owners that were never advised that the monies that were taken right out of the employer’s business account, went right into their pockets I.E. CERTIFIED H.R. SERVICES. I’m certain you know of them. Well every week for years thjey would directly withdraw from their client and PAY WHO THEY ARE REQUIRED TO PAY. They of course did not and we are suffering because of it. $37,000 in 3 years in WC checks? gimmmie a break!! They are all finally under indictment, some already plead or already in jail, etc. BUT THE STATE OF PA MADE CERTAIN THAT THEY GOT THEIR 1 OR 3 MILLION IN state tax money that the AGENT/PEO never forwarded. As for the employer – he had no idea, NOTHING and no clue that there was no coverage. My husband, the client’s son and I are screwed for the rest of our lives because the boss did what he has done for years: Allow direct withdrawal for payroll, state tax, and WC. The PEO didn’t pay anyone – nothing. No WC checks, no medicals, nothing. Now we are left with med bills totalling over $500,000? The client (my father-in-law) paid his dues to the PEO/AGENT EVERY SINGLE WEEK. Then son gets injured (permanent RSD and subsequent brain surgery caused by the trauma of the wc injury)and we find out that there’s no coverage? I think that insurance companies have ruined our country. Destroying it completely. Think about it: Another employee was killed while driving his truck – heart attack at the wheel first day. Wife and 2 small children at home. He was 42 yrs old. Wife and children GOT NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why? because of the insurance company
It’s a disgrace that agents and the WC industry nationwide
Worker’s comp is one of the required coverages and they didn’t know that they didn’t have the coverage. Come on folks – guess California doesn’t treat its businesses as adults – need to have their hands held by everyone else. What a bunch of hooey
Well, the DOI will now come up with a written waiver for any commercial coverages not being purchased by the insured at the time any other commercial coverages are placed. If I write the health coverage, should I be liable for the employer’s failure to purchase P&C coverage for his business? The State of CA. failed to verify W.C. via the State Franchise Tax Board NOT HHR. The producer is not required to obtain a written waiver to exclude writing any coverage for a business as they are an educated buyer. The individual insurance buyer is so stupid, they must sign stating they do not want UM/UMPD. Appeal this to any court with a brain and provide the thousands of files whereby a CA. business chose to NOT purchase any other truly optional insurance coverage? When does this crap stop?
Hman
Kathy your story is a sad one but a bit misguided. 1st it is easy for you to claim that the business owner did everything they should have…..but what kind of business owner doesn’t question never receiving a policy. For example if you bought auto insurance but never received ID cards would you just have faith that you were covered? I think not.
2nd blaming the fall of America on insurance agents is a brave statement. In every profession there are a few bad apples but I don’t hear you blaming priests because some molest children or doctors who kill patients because they are not licensed or using expired products or construction workers who cut corners to save cost but then have houses collapse and kill people. Careful with your generalizations they are very dangerous.
3rd don’t blame the insurance company. It is the AGENT who is at fault, know that an insurance agent does not write a policy, it is written on a companies paper, if the company never gets the applications or issues the policy you can hardly blame them.
*insurancegal bows courtesly to Nebraskan
You put something out in the field-of- commerce, unlike your mom’s piping hot grub, then you’re at the mercy of those whom are injured more easily than you. Heck, you’re in Nebraska and munch hard-uncooked field-dried cornnuts, you never get hurt! But apparently, the pltf’s bar is a whole lot better than the defense bar…whose job is to bilk the insurance co’s into believing “their” cases are winnable and crank up a billion chargeable hours. The jurors, many times think differntly. Some are hard-nosed and some are not. You cannot compare parents with entities that sell products. Your mom is immune from your crying whenever you get colic. E-coli, rotten foodstuff, failure to label things likely to burn you. Pecuniary driven distributors are not immune. In the long run the population is better off. If it weren’t for that, then why need “completed ops or products liability” coverage or general liability policies. Take them out completely from businesses insurance policies, stop offering it, select only hard-nose jurors,and adjust the insurance workforce employment accordingly. Result, maybe more bank robberies.
Seriously you have a client with employees who against advice doesn’t purchase work comp and you still do business with them? Isn’t that a red flag that the customer is perhaps ethically challenged at best or confused at least? Do you need the commisssion that bad to keep them as a client? Guess the answer here was a resounding NO.
Insurancegal’s post did not say it was a frivolous suit, just that the amount of $$ was ridiculous. Courts continue to show a lack of common sense in awards and allowing suits to go forward. The McDonald’s suit was about a supposed lack of “Hot Liquid” warning on a cup. What a crock! I suppose if she got a cold lap from a soda spill, she would have claimed a lack of “Cold Liquid” warning on that cup too! It doesn’t take a lot of common sense to negotiate the world, but these people try to raise being a dufus to a higher level & we all get to pay for it.