I read with interest the news release by Bill Feeley from the International Hurricane Protection Association. In this article, Mr. Feeley attacks Hurricane Protection Products that do not meet the Florida Building or Miami Dade Codes. For those of you uninformed, both programs are Optional. There is no requirement that a hurricane shutter system must be Code Approved. Hypothetically, if a company sold bubble wrap and duct tape as hurricane protection, if customers bought it, there is no issue. There is no law mandating that homeowners buy a FBC or Miami Dade-approved product. If you read the Florida Building Code’s FAQ’s on page 2, Number 6 of their website, found at http://www.dca.state.fl.us/FBC/committees/product_approval/PA_QA3_010705.pdf , you will read that FBC Approval is OPTIONAL. If you cannot open that link, please read here:
6. Question: Can a local building department require a manufacturer to get state approval by the Florida Building Commission for their product?
Answer: No. There is no mandate for state product approval in the law or the rule. Local building officials must offer local product approval to a manufacturer when requested. The manufacturer has the “OPTION” of getting approval by the state.
So what is going on here? First you have to understand what Mr. Feeley’s occupation is. Mr. Feeley’s day job is at Eastern Metal Supply, a large aluminum extrusion manufacturer in Lake Worth, Florida. Visit their website at http://www.easternmetal.com. Guess what they make? “Alex, I’ll take Florida Building Code and Miami Dade Approved Hurricane Shutters for $500!” BINGO!!! Eastern Metal Supply and Mr. Bill make Hurricane Shutters!!! So what is really going on here is Mr. Feeley is seeing his livelihood threatened. Someone created a better hurricane shutter, and he is rather steamed. Rather than innovate a Safe, Simple and Self-Installed Hurricane Shutter, Mr. Feeley and his ilk choose to go on the offensive and attack.
Unfortunately, Mr. Feeley and the Truth rarely intersect. His news release says, “According to the Florida Office of Insurance Regulation (Form OIR B1-1802) and Citizens Insurance Co. (Form WBDR 1802-01-09); after-market installed window films are rated the same as having no protection at all (None). Systems that do not meet the FBC or Miami-Dade Approvals are also rated as “None.”
This is simply not true and you can see this for yourself. Simply download both of the above mentioned insurance mitigation forms. Look under Section 8, Opening Protection. Now, look at the criteria for each of the different ratings. The highest “Hurricane” Rating asks for proof of Large Missile Impact Compliance with one of 3 criteria. These criteria include both the aforementioned Florida Building Code and Miami Dade. However, there is a 3rd choice and that choice is “ASTM E 1886 and ASTM E 1996 (Missile Level C.). Mr. Feeley leads one to believe that this insurance form requires either Miami Dade of Florida Building Code compliance ONLY and that systems that do not meet the FBC or Miami Dade Approvals are rated as “None.” This is simply not true–a simple review of each insurance mitigation form will demonstrate this.
What is most laughable about Mr. Feeley’s disingenuous comments is his statement of “The difference in choosing approved or non-approved Hurricane protection systems can dramatically affect the survival of a home and its contents and in some cases can be a life or death decision.”
So Mr. Feeley is saying that IF a homeowner doesn’t buy either of the Florida Building Code or Miami Dade Approved hurricane shutters his company and industry sells, the survival of the home and contents is at risk. That is a rather interesting position to take. Unfortunately, it is simply not true. Hurricanes are unpredictable; there is no hurricane shutter system that is infallible. In fact, speaking of safety, were you aware that since 2004, almost a dozen Floridians have been killed in fires, when their Florida Building Code and Miami Dade approved shutters inhibited their safe exit from the inside? You can read about these sad deaths here: http://www.storm-stoppers.com/hurricanetradgedies.htm.
Those people died, DEAD PEOPLE, because they used products that Mr. Feeley makes and sells. Yet he deigns to preach in his news release about life and death safety issues with other products. Uh, what about his own, that have factually killed people in recent years? Do you think he’s trying to innovate a safe exit hurricane shutter? Nope. He is content to pass his time writing misleading press releases that attack legitimate competitors with better products and more market share.
When you are dealing with disingenuous individuals like Mr. Feeley and the International Hurricane Protection Association, remember that you should examine their real motives. Their real motive is survival. The entire bolt-on shutter industry is facing a major challenge in that homeowners can’t afford their expensive shutter systems. Instead of innovating products that are affordable, Safe, Simple and Self-Installed, Mr. Feeley has resorted to making assertions that are simply untrue and embellishing misinformation.
In closing, if you really want to help Mr. Feeley, it is this reader’s suggestion that you purchase his expensive, unsafe, difficult to use aluminum hurricane shutters. Of course, this won’t help you a lick and it may kill you if there’s a fire and your FBC/Miami Dade-Approved shutters are up. However, it will help Mr. Feeley, which is the entire point of his misinformed news release. Mr. Feeley’s entire issue is about money—his lack of it and his competitors’ access to Scrooge McDuck Vaults of it because of their focus on innovation and the CUSTOMER. Ultimately, whether Mr. Feeley likes it or not, it is the customer who decides which innovative, Safe, Simple & Self Installed Hurricane Shutter company survives and which hurricane shutter company (or industry) folds.
FloridasFinestWindowTinting.com said…
If Window Film is not approved how come its on the insurance wind mitigation deduction form.
If you talking about 3m’s falsely
advertised products I agree.
The term security film only suggest that film is a form of security prevention. Like your alarm. Its not going to stop all atemps of someone getting inside but it helps.To make the comment that its not” an approved hurricane protection “is false. Even if you have shutters the glass can still impacted. Then you have the chance of flying glass.
Even when 911 happend the film on the pentagon was mentioned during a news casting that it saved lives.
Look into or info before bashng a product.
No type of product is hurricane proof. I guess only what you sell huh.
FloridasFinestWindowTinting.com said…
If Window Film is not approved how come its on the insurance wind mitigation deduction form.
If you talking about 3m’s falsely
advertised products I agree.
The term security film only suggest that film is a form of security prevention. Like your alarm. Its not going to stop all atemps of someone getting inside but it helps.To make the comment that its not” an approved hurricane protection “is false. Even if you have shutters the glass can still impacted. Then you have the chance of flying glass.
Even when 911 happend the film on the pentagon was mentioned during a news casting that it saved lives.
Look into or info before bashng a product.
No type of product is hurricane proof. I guess only what you sell huh.
The misinformation posted here without support is nonsense. The codes and testing protocols are there for consumers’ protection. I work for a firm that employees many different types of hurricane protectives – including safety film.
These film application companies and Mr. Smith profess alliance with unproven products without approval for public safety through hyperbolic interpretations.
Lets be clear here – the International Window Film Associations own letter of
Clarification states – for the record – “The window film industry is extremely concerned about erroneous or misleading information about the benefits of its products as related to occupant protection during hurricane or other high wind events. Safety/security window films do offer an extremely high level of protection from glass fragments once glass is broken, no matter the cause of the breakage. However, statements such as “hurricane proof” or “meets Dade County standards” are, at best, misleading to the public or, at worst, fraudulent. ”
This is not a question of fraud as much as public trust. “This is incredibly dangerous. A consumer sees this (statement) and believes that it must be legitimate. Unfortunately, consumers are purchasing these products in good faith thinking they are protecting their homes and family.” They may well be placing innocent people at risk of injury or worse. To brush aside codes and testing protocols as frivolous is an absurd argument.
These tests are strictly in place to differentiate between specifications of fact so that the consumers can make an informed decision. If a product like applied film or ‘storm busters’ so chooses to forgo product approval through verification, then they are at risk of credibility. They can compete in a common marketplace without product approval codes. Insurance companies rely on code approved products tested for verification as well they should.
Would these same people say to hell with codes when they built their own houses – and build with untested and unreliable products? I think not – few consumers risk their protection and life to products pushers who won’t invest in mainstream testing unless their products can’t muster the specs.
Now – that is not to say that products like these don’t have their benefits. In most if not all of them – consumers can find several alternatives often more appealing, more affordable, and code approved that will not only work as well but better. With such over-the-top misleading statements you can present an equally questionable concern of honesty. Clients trust your expertise and knowledge to provide the very best level of protection for their home and family without products exaggeration – because that’s all you have without code compliance.
One other comment I’d like to add here. I was going to just overlook it for the obvious reason of not going into verbal gymnastics with another poster…but with respect I wish to address of few of these and be true to the facts….
ALL if not MOST hurricane shutters today have quick release systems for egress codes. No one should die in a fire unless you hire an unlicensed, uninformed contractor who does not follow codes. It’s simply not an issue. If you read ‘storm stoppers’ threads please note that these shutters in question did NOT have any egress systems – a violation of code and possibly criminal. Even storm panels have egress systems today.
The other comment that there is a 3rd choice on your insurance mitigations forms and that choice is “ASTM E 1886 and ASTM E 1996 (Missile Level C.) is correct.
But… without confirmation (testing and code compliance) no certified licensed mitigation inspector would check this box without committing fraud. To sign off on this form an inspector would require PROOF that the products in question MEET the very protocols of intended use. Thus you need a FBC number to check that box or any other box on this mitigation form other then – none.
William Tell
Truth In Advertising
Installer of Film & Shutters
William: You must have a lot of free time on your hands to write such a missive on a 9 month old, long forgotten article.
However, I love your ignorance. Please elucidate about the mandatory “code mandated” egress in the following common shutter types:
Roll Down—Uh, you need the optional crank at every window. Even with the crank, it would take about 2 minutes to crank up in a dark room, with no lights. Fat chance.
Accordions–These lock from the outside—so how do you open from the inside?
Corrugated Storm Panels–these wingnut at the bottom. What is the egress you speak of? The one company that makes an egress panel sells an optional Ensurescape nifty product but you would have to retrofit EVERY home with storm panels with this product, which obviously isn’t going to happen.
Plywood–These bolt on all 4 sides. Uh, what is the egress again, WILLIAM?
Clearly the FBC shutter market is just concerned about their own longevity, not about safety. Your industry doesn’t sell safety—they sell expensive hard to put up shutters that the public hates using. Seriously, if homeowners were buying FBC shutters, you’d be too busy to post on forgotten websites.
That is why there is all this talk about “product approval” and “national consensus standards.” What you fail to inform the public is that it is YOUR STANDARDS. How do your products do in hurricanes? Do they perform like Storm Stoppers? How come your industry NEVER talks about FBC products’ performance during major hurricanes? In other words, these alleged standards are promulgated by people in the FBC industry, and only exist to move their interests forward. The public is not told that the shutters they buy deny them a way out. They have to find out the hard way in an emergency.
Regarding the mitigation inspection forms, you say that they are up to the interpretation of the mitigation inspectors. Inspection companies that have approved Storm Stoppers are following the form, not selectively interpreting it as you seem interested in doing. The form asks for proof of large missile impact testing and Storm Stoppers has that.
It is interesting that you interpret it towards your interests, but not a surprise. Again, if the public were educated, they would wonder why the form asks for proof of meeting the Missile Level C test is there as an option, if FBC approval is mandatory. Isn’t the mitigation form redundant for asking for FBC approval and then as you say, asking for FBC approval AGAIN via the missile level C option? If what you are saying is true, Section 8 of the form really reads like this:
Homeowner needs proof of passing the Large Missile Impact test to one of the following:
As you articulated, that is redundant. I have more respect for the Florida Office of Insurance people that created the form than you do. Your interpretation of the form is rather cockeyed but it is consistent with your line of work. Politicians rarely tell the truth and the same goes for people in the FBC approval industry.
I sincerely hope you aren’t in a home protected by one of the above lack-of-egress shutter types (i.e. roll down, accordion, corrugated storm panel or plywood) when a fire breaks out. I just saw a house fire 2 weeks ago and it was extremely frightening. I can only imagine how scary it would be for the occupant to try and escape from the windows only to find one of these 4 shutter types blocking their way. Google HURRICANE SHUTTER TRAGEDIES and you will read more about these deaths. You can also visit the IHPA’s website at http://www.innhpa.com.
Anyways, i’m sure you will be looking for work in the near future. I mean, the FBC industry is sooooo busy with such a waiting list of consumers for your unsafe, expensive and hard to use products, yet you have all this time on your hands. That doesn’t make much sense but nor does the truth of the FBC product approval agenda.
While Mr. Smith is correct that the statewide approval is optional, local jurisdictional approvals are MANDATORY under the same laws and rules.
As to the OIR Form, we are adding the wording “Cyclic Pressure Testing” to make sure inspectors are not mislead by companies that have tested to the impact portion of the ASTM E 1996 standard but have not complied with ASTM E 1886 AND ASTM E 1996. We are also adding the requirement for a Miami-Dade or FBC Approval.
I agree with WIlliam, compliance with “Hurricane” means it is an Approved product, the new wording will clarify this. I would encourage anyone aware of an inspector or inspection firm marking the OIR form as “Hurricane” for John Smith’s product or window film to turn them into the Department of Financial Services who is keenly interested in prosecuting this fraudulent activity.
Ahh, Darius, was wondering when you would dust the beignet and po boy crumbs off your keyboard to join in the lively discussion.
I have an economics question for you—WHAT are you doing to innovate a product that is low cost and easy to use and doesn’t trap you in a fire? The answer….NOTHING! Why not? Well, no one is paying you and that is all you are—a lobbyist.
It doesn’t matter what the OIR form says IF customers cannot afford, lift or easily install your “recommended” shutter protection system. That’s why the most common shutter system is plywood.
So, enjoy creating the form. Getting customers to use your industry’s products is the challenge you’re ignoring. By the way, have you ever thought about offering a “2-fer” with your shutters? You could offer a great value….buy some egress-denying shutters and get body bags for the whole family! You could have the body bags imprinted with the FBC number, so the Coroner knows what bags go with what egress-denying shutter.
I guess I need to take the time to google hurricane shutter tragedies. I’m not taking the time to read the articles. Yes, I can see the issue with there being a fire while the shutters are deployed. But my argument is that any product that provides “real” protection should not be able to be simply pushed out from the inside. It just seems like common sense. I can’t imagine how you are selling this product at all.
Even properly installed home-made wood shutters should be fastened to the point where you should not be able to push your way out.
And, have you ever thought of simply removing the shutters or opening them? What a concept! Who leaves them up or closed 24/7? I think it would be common sense for a customer to remove them.
How many people have lost their lives because of a fire “during” a hurricane event? It all goes back to common sense and education. All of our customers are advised to remove the shutter, open them, etc after the storm passes to allow an exit.
I have seen your product at a home show when I acted as an interested customer and have been personally LIED to by your representatives…who stated the product was Miami-Dade and Florida Building approved. When I asked them to show me the certificates and was shown a book of testing data, the individual had no response when I commented that I see no Miami-Dade or Florida documents. So, either they do not know or they are purposefully lying.
Thankfully, consumers are getting smarter and hopefully consumers will see the TRUTH.
I agree your product may be better than “nothing”…but that’s the best protection they are going to get. If there’s absolutely no other alternative, then just velcro sign boards to your windows….that should work! During preparations for Katrina, I saw someone nailed a “floor rug” over their window. Again, better than nothing.
By the way, why not post your real name on here? Too often, bloggers hide behind a made up name. The FBC shutter industry acts like bullies but then doesn’t have the confidence to put their name out there. I do. Why don’t you put your name and location on your next comment? Take ownership of what you say!
Now, regarding your query about how many deaths, there were 5 children in 2004 trapped behind plywood shutters, a priest in 2004 trapped behind metal corrugated shutters; a couple and their 2 dogs in 1998 trapped behind metal corrugated shutters; a 71 year old widow in 2007 killed on the first day of hurricane season in Hollywood, Florida, trapped behind metal corrugated shutters. In January of 2008, a lady in Loxahatchee, Florida died, trapped behind shutters–the article didn’t say what kind, only that firefighters had to saw through them to reach her. Of the 1,000+ victims of Katrina, it is likely there were some that died when they were trapped behind their metal or wood shutters when the floodwaters rose. Someone knowledgeable about Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans would have good statistics on this. Plus, of course the many millions of dollars in destruction of homes and property caused in the above deaths.
It is not a surprise that you aren’t aware of this. You probably never thought about safety when you went shopping for hurricane protection. It wasn’t until Storm Stoppers was created in 2004 that homeowners became aware of the need for safe exit. The shutter industry just doesn’t point out the glaring weakness in their alleged protection. The reason is most likely, the problem is too expensive to fix. As you point out, HOW can you make a shutter fasten to the house, but be able to open it from the inside? It doesn’t make a lot of intuitive sense. However, lots of things work one way but not the other. Most gates open one way but don’t swing the other way; there are things the size of a paperclip that hold rooms worth of information–they call them microchips; there’s even a shirt they make that can stop a bullet, did you know? How can this be? The shirt is made of a fabric called Kevlar and is commonly known as a bullet proof vest.
All shutters should be made like Storm Stoppers—in that if there’s an emergency, you should be able to open the window and push and escape. You should admit to yourself that that would be a good offering to a customer. However, first you have to overcome the FBC and Miami Dade industry. They don’t want that as, in the words of Lee Iococca, SAFETY DOESN’T SELL. It is also too expensive for them to make metal shutters that can be opened from the inside. Not enough people have died yet is the real answer.
The next opportunity you have, go in a house protected by Code Approved shutters and ask yourself, “HOW WOULD I GET OUT IF I HAD TO?” If there is no solution, that is the problem you should be asking the shutter industry to solve. Talk to the relatives of the people that died in the hurricane shutter tragedies pages and ask them what they think of the need for removing all shutters from the inside.
The cheapest shutter the industry recommends is plywood, next up the chain is metal corrugated shutters. These are very very common. How do you get out in an emergency from each shutter type? The answer is YOU DON’T! The shutter industry will not preach safety, like Storm Stoppers, until enough people die and there is a public outcry. Read the firefighter comments in HURRICANE SHUTTER TRAGEDIES and then read the comments of the deceased’ loved ones. Then, ask yourself, WHY ISN’T ONE DEATH TOO MANY, LET ALONE 9? Simple answer is….not enough people have died.
P.S. It is amusing to hear you write that you “acted as a customer” at a home show. Beyond not putting your name on your comment to the Insurance Journal, this is more evidence of how tough it must be for people to be honest, sign their name, be themselves, etc. Regardless, I doubt you spoke to a Storm Stoppers representative. No one that knows our company would ever be confused that our product is FBC or Miami Dade approved. Code approved products are expensive, hard to use and have contributed to many deaths in Florida—we would NEVER associate our good name and reputation with dangerous products like the FBC or Miami Dade Approved products are. Please see the IHPA at http://www.innhpa.com for more information on these Dangerous Products.
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I read with interest the news release by Bill Feeley from the International Hurricane Protection Association. In this article, Mr. Feeley attacks Hurricane Protection Products that do not meet the Florida Building or Miami Dade Codes. For those of you uninformed, both programs are Optional. There is no requirement that a hurricane shutter system must be Code Approved. Hypothetically, if a company sold bubble wrap and duct tape as hurricane protection, if customers bought it, there is no issue. There is no law mandating that homeowners buy a FBC or Miami Dade-approved product. If you read the Florida Building Code’s FAQ’s on page 2, Number 6 of their website, found at http://www.dca.state.fl.us/FBC/committees/product_approval/PA_QA3_010705.pdf , you will read that FBC Approval is OPTIONAL. If you cannot open that link, please read here:
6. Question: Can a local building department require a manufacturer to get state approval by the Florida Building Commission for their product?
Answer: No. There is no mandate for state product approval in the law or the rule. Local building officials must offer local product approval to a manufacturer when requested. The manufacturer has the “OPTION” of getting approval by the state.
So what is going on here? First you have to understand what Mr. Feeley’s occupation is. Mr. Feeley’s day job is at Eastern Metal Supply, a large aluminum extrusion manufacturer in Lake Worth, Florida. Visit their website at http://www.easternmetal.com. Guess what they make? “Alex, I’ll take Florida Building Code and Miami Dade Approved Hurricane Shutters for $500!” BINGO!!! Eastern Metal Supply and Mr. Bill make Hurricane Shutters!!! So what is really going on here is Mr. Feeley is seeing his livelihood threatened. Someone created a better hurricane shutter, and he is rather steamed. Rather than innovate a Safe, Simple and Self-Installed Hurricane Shutter, Mr. Feeley and his ilk choose to go on the offensive and attack.
Unfortunately, Mr. Feeley and the Truth rarely intersect. His news release says, “According to the Florida Office of Insurance Regulation (Form OIR B1-1802) and Citizens Insurance Co. (Form WBDR 1802-01-09); after-market installed window films are rated the same as having no protection at all (None). Systems that do not meet the FBC or Miami-Dade Approvals are also rated as “None.”
This is simply not true and you can see this for yourself. Simply download both of the above mentioned insurance mitigation forms. Look under Section 8, Opening Protection. Now, look at the criteria for each of the different ratings. The highest “Hurricane” Rating asks for proof of Large Missile Impact Compliance with one of 3 criteria. These criteria include both the aforementioned Florida Building Code and Miami Dade. However, there is a 3rd choice and that choice is “ASTM E 1886 and ASTM E 1996 (Missile Level C.). Mr. Feeley leads one to believe that this insurance form requires either Miami Dade of Florida Building Code compliance ONLY and that systems that do not meet the FBC or Miami Dade Approvals are rated as “None.” This is simply not true–a simple review of each insurance mitigation form will demonstrate this.
What is most laughable about Mr. Feeley’s disingenuous comments is his statement of “The difference in choosing approved or non-approved Hurricane protection systems can dramatically affect the survival of a home and its contents and in some cases can be a life or death decision.”
So Mr. Feeley is saying that IF a homeowner doesn’t buy either of the Florida Building Code or Miami Dade Approved hurricane shutters his company and industry sells, the survival of the home and contents is at risk. That is a rather interesting position to take. Unfortunately, it is simply not true. Hurricanes are unpredictable; there is no hurricane shutter system that is infallible. In fact, speaking of safety, were you aware that since 2004, almost a dozen Floridians have been killed in fires, when their Florida Building Code and Miami Dade approved shutters inhibited their safe exit from the inside? You can read about these sad deaths here: http://www.storm-stoppers.com/hurricanetradgedies.htm.
Those people died, DEAD PEOPLE, because they used products that Mr. Feeley makes and sells. Yet he deigns to preach in his news release about life and death safety issues with other products. Uh, what about his own, that have factually killed people in recent years? Do you think he’s trying to innovate a safe exit hurricane shutter? Nope. He is content to pass his time writing misleading press releases that attack legitimate competitors with better products and more market share.
When you are dealing with disingenuous individuals like Mr. Feeley and the International Hurricane Protection Association, remember that you should examine their real motives. Their real motive is survival. The entire bolt-on shutter industry is facing a major challenge in that homeowners can’t afford their expensive shutter systems. Instead of innovating products that are affordable, Safe, Simple and Self-Installed, Mr. Feeley has resorted to making assertions that are simply untrue and embellishing misinformation.
In closing, if you really want to help Mr. Feeley, it is this reader’s suggestion that you purchase his expensive, unsafe, difficult to use aluminum hurricane shutters. Of course, this won’t help you a lick and it may kill you if there’s a fire and your FBC/Miami Dade-Approved shutters are up. However, it will help Mr. Feeley, which is the entire point of his misinformed news release. Mr. Feeley’s entire issue is about money—his lack of it and his competitors’ access to Scrooge McDuck Vaults of it because of their focus on innovation and the CUSTOMER. Ultimately, whether Mr. Feeley likes it or not, it is the customer who decides which innovative, Safe, Simple & Self Installed Hurricane Shutter company survives and which hurricane shutter company (or industry) folds.
FloridasFinestWindowTinting.com said…
If Window Film is not approved how come its on the insurance wind mitigation deduction form.
If you talking about 3m’s falsely
advertised products I agree.
The term security film only suggest that film is a form of security prevention. Like your alarm. Its not going to stop all atemps of someone getting inside but it helps.To make the comment that its not” an approved hurricane protection “is false. Even if you have shutters the glass can still impacted. Then you have the chance of flying glass.
Even when 911 happend the film on the pentagon was mentioned during a news casting that it saved lives.
Look into or info before bashng a product.
No type of product is hurricane proof. I guess only what you sell huh.
FloridasFinestWindowTinting.com said…
If Window Film is not approved how come its on the insurance wind mitigation deduction form.
If you talking about 3m’s falsely
advertised products I agree.
The term security film only suggest that film is a form of security prevention. Like your alarm. Its not going to stop all atemps of someone getting inside but it helps.To make the comment that its not” an approved hurricane protection “is false. Even if you have shutters the glass can still impacted. Then you have the chance of flying glass.
Even when 911 happend the film on the pentagon was mentioned during a news casting that it saved lives.
Look into or info before bashng a product.
No type of product is hurricane proof. I guess only what you sell huh.
The misinformation posted here without support is nonsense. The codes and testing protocols are there for consumers’ protection. I work for a firm that employees many different types of hurricane protectives – including safety film.
These film application companies and Mr. Smith profess alliance with unproven products without approval for public safety through hyperbolic interpretations.
Lets be clear here – the International Window Film Associations own letter of
Clarification states – for the record – “The window film industry is extremely concerned about erroneous or misleading information about the benefits of its products as related to occupant protection during hurricane or other high wind events. Safety/security window films do offer an extremely high level of protection from glass fragments once glass is broken, no matter the cause of the breakage. However, statements such as “hurricane proof” or “meets Dade County standards” are, at best, misleading to the public or, at worst, fraudulent. ”
This is not a question of fraud as much as public trust. “This is incredibly dangerous. A consumer sees this (statement) and believes that it must be legitimate. Unfortunately, consumers are purchasing these products in good faith thinking they are protecting their homes and family.” They may well be placing innocent people at risk of injury or worse. To brush aside codes and testing protocols as frivolous is an absurd argument.
These tests are strictly in place to differentiate between specifications of fact so that the consumers can make an informed decision. If a product like applied film or ‘storm busters’ so chooses to forgo product approval through verification, then they are at risk of credibility. They can compete in a common marketplace without product approval codes. Insurance companies rely on code approved products tested for verification as well they should.
Would these same people say to hell with codes when they built their own houses – and build with untested and unreliable products? I think not – few consumers risk their protection and life to products pushers who won’t invest in mainstream testing unless their products can’t muster the specs.
Now – that is not to say that products like these don’t have their benefits. In most if not all of them – consumers can find several alternatives often more appealing, more affordable, and code approved that will not only work as well but better. With such over-the-top misleading statements you can present an equally questionable concern of honesty. Clients trust your expertise and knowledge to provide the very best level of protection for their home and family without products exaggeration – because that’s all you have without code compliance.
William Tell
Truth In Advertising.
Installer of Film & Shutters.
http://www.truthaboutwindowfilm.info/
One other comment I’d like to add here. I was going to just overlook it for the obvious reason of not going into verbal gymnastics with another poster…but with respect I wish to address of few of these and be true to the facts….
ALL if not MOST hurricane shutters today have quick release systems for egress codes. No one should die in a fire unless you hire an unlicensed, uninformed contractor who does not follow codes. It’s simply not an issue. If you read ‘storm stoppers’ threads please note that these shutters in question did NOT have any egress systems – a violation of code and possibly criminal. Even storm panels have egress systems today.
The other comment that there is a 3rd choice on your insurance mitigations forms and that choice is “ASTM E 1886 and ASTM E 1996 (Missile Level C.) is correct.
But… without confirmation (testing and code compliance) no certified licensed mitigation inspector would check this box without committing fraud. To sign off on this form an inspector would require PROOF that the products in question MEET the very protocols of intended use. Thus you need a FBC number to check that box or any other box on this mitigation form other then – none.
William Tell
Truth In Advertising
Installer of Film & Shutters
William: You must have a lot of free time on your hands to write such a missive on a 9 month old, long forgotten article.
However, I love your ignorance. Please elucidate about the mandatory “code mandated” egress in the following common shutter types:
Roll Down—Uh, you need the optional crank at every window. Even with the crank, it would take about 2 minutes to crank up in a dark room, with no lights. Fat chance.
Accordions–These lock from the outside—so how do you open from the inside?
Corrugated Storm Panels–these wingnut at the bottom. What is the egress you speak of? The one company that makes an egress panel sells an optional Ensurescape nifty product but you would have to retrofit EVERY home with storm panels with this product, which obviously isn’t going to happen.
Plywood–These bolt on all 4 sides. Uh, what is the egress again, WILLIAM?
Clearly the FBC shutter market is just concerned about their own longevity, not about safety. Your industry doesn’t sell safety—they sell expensive hard to put up shutters that the public hates using. Seriously, if homeowners were buying FBC shutters, you’d be too busy to post on forgotten websites.
That is why there is all this talk about “product approval” and “national consensus standards.” What you fail to inform the public is that it is YOUR STANDARDS. How do your products do in hurricanes? Do they perform like Storm Stoppers? How come your industry NEVER talks about FBC products’ performance during major hurricanes? In other words, these alleged standards are promulgated by people in the FBC industry, and only exist to move their interests forward. The public is not told that the shutters they buy deny them a way out. They have to find out the hard way in an emergency.
Regarding the mitigation inspection forms, you say that they are up to the interpretation of the mitigation inspectors. Inspection companies that have approved Storm Stoppers are following the form, not selectively interpreting it as you seem interested in doing. The form asks for proof of large missile impact testing and Storm Stoppers has that.
It is interesting that you interpret it towards your interests, but not a surprise. Again, if the public were educated, they would wonder why the form asks for proof of meeting the Missile Level C test is there as an option, if FBC approval is mandatory. Isn’t the mitigation form redundant for asking for FBC approval and then as you say, asking for FBC approval AGAIN via the missile level C option? If what you are saying is true, Section 8 of the form really reads like this:
Homeowner needs proof of passing the Large Missile Impact test to one of the following:
1. FBC approval
2. Miami Dade approval
3. Missile Level C FBC approval
As you articulated, that is redundant. I have more respect for the Florida Office of Insurance people that created the form than you do. Your interpretation of the form is rather cockeyed but it is consistent with your line of work. Politicians rarely tell the truth and the same goes for people in the FBC approval industry.
I sincerely hope you aren’t in a home protected by one of the above lack-of-egress shutter types (i.e. roll down, accordion, corrugated storm panel or plywood) when a fire breaks out. I just saw a house fire 2 weeks ago and it was extremely frightening. I can only imagine how scary it would be for the occupant to try and escape from the windows only to find one of these 4 shutter types blocking their way. Google HURRICANE SHUTTER TRAGEDIES and you will read more about these deaths. You can also visit the IHPA’s website at http://www.innhpa.com.
Anyways, i’m sure you will be looking for work in the near future. I mean, the FBC industry is sooooo busy with such a waiting list of consumers for your unsafe, expensive and hard to use products, yet you have all this time on your hands. That doesn’t make much sense but nor does the truth of the FBC product approval agenda.
While Mr. Smith is correct that the statewide approval is optional, local jurisdictional approvals are MANDATORY under the same laws and rules.
As to the OIR Form, we are adding the wording “Cyclic Pressure Testing” to make sure inspectors are not mislead by companies that have tested to the impact portion of the ASTM E 1996 standard but have not complied with ASTM E 1886 AND ASTM E 1996. We are also adding the requirement for a Miami-Dade or FBC Approval.
I agree with WIlliam, compliance with “Hurricane” means it is an Approved product, the new wording will clarify this. I would encourage anyone aware of an inspector or inspection firm marking the OIR form as “Hurricane” for John Smith’s product or window film to turn them into the Department of Financial Services who is keenly interested in prosecuting this fraudulent activity.
Ahh, Darius, was wondering when you would dust the beignet and po boy crumbs off your keyboard to join in the lively discussion.
I have an economics question for you—WHAT are you doing to innovate a product that is low cost and easy to use and doesn’t trap you in a fire? The answer….NOTHING! Why not? Well, no one is paying you and that is all you are—a lobbyist.
It doesn’t matter what the OIR form says IF customers cannot afford, lift or easily install your “recommended” shutter protection system. That’s why the most common shutter system is plywood.
So, enjoy creating the form. Getting customers to use your industry’s products is the challenge you’re ignoring. By the way, have you ever thought about offering a “2-fer” with your shutters? You could offer a great value….buy some egress-denying shutters and get body bags for the whole family! You could have the body bags imprinted with the FBC number, so the Coroner knows what bags go with what egress-denying shutter.
Mr. Smith:
I guess I need to take the time to google hurricane shutter tragedies. I’m not taking the time to read the articles. Yes, I can see the issue with there being a fire while the shutters are deployed. But my argument is that any product that provides “real” protection should not be able to be simply pushed out from the inside. It just seems like common sense. I can’t imagine how you are selling this product at all.
Even properly installed home-made wood shutters should be fastened to the point where you should not be able to push your way out.
And, have you ever thought of simply removing the shutters or opening them? What a concept! Who leaves them up or closed 24/7? I think it would be common sense for a customer to remove them.
How many people have lost their lives because of a fire “during” a hurricane event? It all goes back to common sense and education. All of our customers are advised to remove the shutter, open them, etc after the storm passes to allow an exit.
I have seen your product at a home show when I acted as an interested customer and have been personally LIED to by your representatives…who stated the product was Miami-Dade and Florida Building approved. When I asked them to show me the certificates and was shown a book of testing data, the individual had no response when I commented that I see no Miami-Dade or Florida documents. So, either they do not know or they are purposefully lying.
Thankfully, consumers are getting smarter and hopefully consumers will see the TRUTH.
I agree your product may be better than “nothing”…but that’s the best protection they are going to get. If there’s absolutely no other alternative, then just velcro sign boards to your windows….that should work! During preparations for Katrina, I saw someone nailed a “floor rug” over their window. Again, better than nothing.
Shutter Lady:
By the way, why not post your real name on here? Too often, bloggers hide behind a made up name. The FBC shutter industry acts like bullies but then doesn’t have the confidence to put their name out there. I do. Why don’t you put your name and location on your next comment? Take ownership of what you say!
Now, regarding your query about how many deaths, there were 5 children in 2004 trapped behind plywood shutters, a priest in 2004 trapped behind metal corrugated shutters; a couple and their 2 dogs in 1998 trapped behind metal corrugated shutters; a 71 year old widow in 2007 killed on the first day of hurricane season in Hollywood, Florida, trapped behind metal corrugated shutters. In January of 2008, a lady in Loxahatchee, Florida died, trapped behind shutters–the article didn’t say what kind, only that firefighters had to saw through them to reach her. Of the 1,000+ victims of Katrina, it is likely there were some that died when they were trapped behind their metal or wood shutters when the floodwaters rose. Someone knowledgeable about Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans would have good statistics on this. Plus, of course the many millions of dollars in destruction of homes and property caused in the above deaths.
It is not a surprise that you aren’t aware of this. You probably never thought about safety when you went shopping for hurricane protection. It wasn’t until Storm Stoppers was created in 2004 that homeowners became aware of the need for safe exit. The shutter industry just doesn’t point out the glaring weakness in their alleged protection. The reason is most likely, the problem is too expensive to fix. As you point out, HOW can you make a shutter fasten to the house, but be able to open it from the inside? It doesn’t make a lot of intuitive sense. However, lots of things work one way but not the other. Most gates open one way but don’t swing the other way; there are things the size of a paperclip that hold rooms worth of information–they call them microchips; there’s even a shirt they make that can stop a bullet, did you know? How can this be? The shirt is made of a fabric called Kevlar and is commonly known as a bullet proof vest.
All shutters should be made like Storm Stoppers—in that if there’s an emergency, you should be able to open the window and push and escape. You should admit to yourself that that would be a good offering to a customer. However, first you have to overcome the FBC and Miami Dade industry. They don’t want that as, in the words of Lee Iococca, SAFETY DOESN’T SELL. It is also too expensive for them to make metal shutters that can be opened from the inside. Not enough people have died yet is the real answer.
The next opportunity you have, go in a house protected by Code Approved shutters and ask yourself, “HOW WOULD I GET OUT IF I HAD TO?” If there is no solution, that is the problem you should be asking the shutter industry to solve. Talk to the relatives of the people that died in the hurricane shutter tragedies pages and ask them what they think of the need for removing all shutters from the inside.
The cheapest shutter the industry recommends is plywood, next up the chain is metal corrugated shutters. These are very very common. How do you get out in an emergency from each shutter type? The answer is YOU DON’T! The shutter industry will not preach safety, like Storm Stoppers, until enough people die and there is a public outcry. Read the firefighter comments in HURRICANE SHUTTER TRAGEDIES and then read the comments of the deceased’ loved ones. Then, ask yourself, WHY ISN’T ONE DEATH TOO MANY, LET ALONE 9? Simple answer is….not enough people have died.
P.S. It is amusing to hear you write that you “acted as a customer” at a home show. Beyond not putting your name on your comment to the Insurance Journal, this is more evidence of how tough it must be for people to be honest, sign their name, be themselves, etc. Regardless, I doubt you spoke to a Storm Stoppers representative. No one that knows our company would ever be confused that our product is FBC or Miami Dade approved. Code approved products are expensive, hard to use and have contributed to many deaths in Florida—we would NEVER associate our good name and reputation with dangerous products like the FBC or Miami Dade Approved products are. Please see the IHPA at http://www.innhpa.com for more information on these Dangerous Products.