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Perhaps Allstate and certain other insurers would like to explain why their “fair and reasonable” 2002-2005 pricing in Texas and in Florida is historically much less than generally intrinsic fair market “Square” (100 SF) cost pricing.
A 2004-2005+ Shingle Square Re-Roofing Cost Estimation Value Example-(Without sales tax);
Add 20+% more for Primary-General Contractor Overhead and Profit markup..;
$287.82
$ 28.78 10% Overhead
———————
$316.60 Sub-Total
$ 31.66 10% Profit
———————
$348.26 Primary-G.C. Grand Total
$3.48 per square foot to perform life endangering work outdoors (in really hot conditions), at least 1-2 stories off the ground, verses a comparable price to install decent carpet INSIDE the same 1-2 story structure, seems like a fair trade price example…for the high risk environment.
Low-balling construction costs can become public knowledge by examining insurers own claim settlement practices. A collection of enough of those kind of claim estimates, and insurers unfair-uncompetitive trade practices can show up.
Bad stuff happens when profits are more important than people, and ones’ pretend otherwise…
Just imagine how many other small construction type of jobs are not covered for W/C … Everyone is trying to find the cheapest way out.
Think of these people that want to become entrepreneurs and don’t know anything about insurance. Half of them can’t even spell insurance. They open a “business”, they purchase machinery to run the business and other supplies, they “hire” family and friends until the business “jumps off” and they never get around to purchasing insurance for themselves, or their “friends and family / employees”.
Yeah what a mess when someone gets hurt or god forbid disabled on the job.
I think Mr. Poe misses the point. The hot dangerous job needs to be insured so that the roofer, who is typically not the cream of society is protected when not if an injury occurs.
FYI, I have yet to see a carpet or tile installer carry any WC despite the risk to the individuals.
If everyone plays by the rules and the insurance companies reimbursments come up short, that can be fixed.
Rates in Fla. were in excess of $50 per hundred 10 years ago and now sit at $38. Factor in inflation and that puts the rates at less than half of what it had been. Nothing changes with the roofers they continually cry poor mouth.
You can’t “factor in inflation” when comparing work comp rates of before. The fact that work comp premiums are a % of payroll mean that the inflation factor is already built in.
If the rate only stayed the same, and the hourly wage for a good roofer went from $12 to $24 an hour, well then, your insurance cost has doubled as well.
As the owner of an employee leasing company and brokerage, I have seen what people make. I can assure you that wages for roofing workers have remained the same if not lower for the past ten years. While the readers of this board find it a hot and low paying job, people from outside the country are literally dieing to come here and make that 10-12$ an hour.
Fact is that if you pay workers’ cash, you save not only on insurance but you do not have to pay taxes (Social Security, Federal Income Tax, Unemployment Tax etc.). The worker getting cash does not pay taxes, and everyone makes more money… Until some one gets hurt….
Every one makes good points, I’d like to point out one thing. The home owner! The home owner contributes to the low balling settlement practices of insurance companies.
I have direct experiance working in the Florida market, and the foremost thing on home owners minds was how much money they would have to pay out of pocket towards thier deductible. Being that Florida has a percentage system on Hurricane claims most peoples deductibles ended up very high.
An example: Typical $7000 roof claim with a 2% ded on a 250K home is $4,000!
Left with this, I’d beat up every roofing contractor for the lowest price possible to offset how much of that wopping $4000 I have to pay.
Now in a situation where a home owners deduct is along the lines of $250 to $500, many times the home owner would get about half of that $7000 minus the deductible.
So:
RCV = $7000
DEP = $3500
DED = $500
1st Payment = $3000 with an additional $3000 left if the work is completed.
The first thing a home owner is going to do is try and at least get the work completed for $6500 dollars thereby avoiding paying the deductible. Sometimes greed takes over and becuase they don’t understand the DEP part of the claim they might be thinking that if they get the roofer to replace the roof for say, $5000 they not only will not have to pay the ded but when the Insurance sends that $3500 dep, they are going to have money left over.
But suprise comes when they turn in the receipts for the work and the claims adjuster finds out they had the work completed for $1500 dollars less he only sends what is needed to total the claim to $5000 dollars and there by saves the left over money. This is ok and this is right as it’s cost replacement insurance.
The home owner and the contractor for that matter are cutting there own throats and enabling insurance companies justification to pay lower and lower amounts on claims.
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Perhaps Allstate and certain other insurers would like to explain why their “fair and reasonable” 2002-2005 pricing in Texas and in Florida is historically much less than generally intrinsic fair market “Square” (100 SF) cost pricing.
A 2004-2005+ Shingle Square Re-Roofing Cost Estimation Value Example-(Without sales tax);
$54.00 30 Year Shingles
$ 7.50 30# Felt
$ 2.00 Fasteners
$ 2.00 Edge-Valley-Etc. Metals
$16.00 Liability Insurance
$60.00 Workers Compensation
$100.00 Labor (Remove-Replace)
——————————-
$241.50 (No Permit/Dumpster-Dump Fees)
$ 24.15 10% Overhead
——————————-
$261.65 Sub-Total
$ 26.17 10% Profit
——————————-
$287.82 Roofing Contractor Square Example
Add 20+% more for Primary-General Contractor Overhead and Profit markup..;
$287.82
$ 28.78 10% Overhead
———————
$316.60 Sub-Total
$ 31.66 10% Profit
———————
$348.26 Primary-G.C. Grand Total
$3.48 per square foot to perform life endangering work outdoors (in really hot conditions), at least 1-2 stories off the ground, verses a comparable price to install decent carpet INSIDE the same 1-2 story structure, seems like a fair trade price example…for the high risk environment.
Low-balling construction costs can become public knowledge by examining insurers own claim settlement practices. A collection of enough of those kind of claim estimates, and insurers unfair-uncompetitive trade practices can show up.
Bad stuff happens when profits are more important than people, and ones’ pretend otherwise…
Roger Poe R.S.
rogerpoe@acnet.net
Just imagine how many other small construction type of jobs are not covered for W/C … Everyone is trying to find the cheapest way out.
Think of these people that want to become entrepreneurs and don’t know anything about insurance. Half of them can’t even spell insurance. They open a “business”, they purchase machinery to run the business and other supplies, they “hire” family and friends until the business “jumps off” and they never get around to purchasing insurance for themselves, or their “friends and family / employees”.
Yeah what a mess when someone gets hurt or god forbid disabled on the job.
I think Mr. Poe misses the point. The hot dangerous job needs to be insured so that the roofer, who is typically not the cream of society is protected when not if an injury occurs.
FYI, I have yet to see a carpet or tile installer carry any WC despite the risk to the individuals.
If everyone plays by the rules and the insurance companies reimbursments come up short, that can be fixed.
Michael Speizman
Rates in Fla. were in excess of $50 per hundred 10 years ago and now sit at $38. Factor in inflation and that puts the rates at less than half of what it had been. Nothing changes with the roofers they continually cry poor mouth.
You can’t “factor in inflation” when comparing work comp rates of before. The fact that work comp premiums are a % of payroll mean that the inflation factor is already built in.
If the rate only stayed the same, and the hourly wage for a good roofer went from $12 to $24 an hour, well then, your insurance cost has doubled as well.
As the owner of an employee leasing company and brokerage, I have seen what people make. I can assure you that wages for roofing workers have remained the same if not lower for the past ten years. While the readers of this board find it a hot and low paying job, people from outside the country are literally dieing to come here and make that 10-12$ an hour.
Fact is that if you pay workers’ cash, you save not only on insurance but you do not have to pay taxes (Social Security, Federal Income Tax, Unemployment Tax etc.). The worker getting cash does not pay taxes, and everyone makes more money… Until some one gets hurt….
Uninsured companies do so for greed….
Every one makes good points, I’d like to point out one thing. The home owner! The home owner contributes to the low balling settlement practices of insurance companies.
I have direct experiance working in the Florida market, and the foremost thing on home owners minds was how much money they would have to pay out of pocket towards thier deductible. Being that Florida has a percentage system on Hurricane claims most peoples deductibles ended up very high.
An example: Typical $7000 roof claim with a 2% ded on a 250K home is $4,000!
Left with this, I’d beat up every roofing contractor for the lowest price possible to offset how much of that wopping $4000 I have to pay.
Now in a situation where a home owners deduct is along the lines of $250 to $500, many times the home owner would get about half of that $7000 minus the deductible.
So:
RCV = $7000
DEP = $3500
DED = $500
1st Payment = $3000 with an additional $3000 left if the work is completed.
The first thing a home owner is going to do is try and at least get the work completed for $6500 dollars thereby avoiding paying the deductible. Sometimes greed takes over and becuase they don’t understand the DEP part of the claim they might be thinking that if they get the roofer to replace the roof for say, $5000 they not only will not have to pay the ded but when the Insurance sends that $3500 dep, they are going to have money left over.
But suprise comes when they turn in the receipts for the work and the claims adjuster finds out they had the work completed for $1500 dollars less he only sends what is needed to total the claim to $5000 dollars and there by saves the left over money. This is ok and this is right as it’s cost replacement insurance.
The home owner and the contractor for that matter are cutting there own throats and enabling insurance companies justification to pay lower and lower amounts on claims.
Please check out our web site http://www.cap-fl.com. We are here to help you improve your company\’s bottom line.