It’s that kind of “if it’s OK for big companies, it’s OK for me” that feeds the entitlement mentality we’ve grown to accept.
It doesn’t matter if others can get away with it. If it’s fraud, it’s fraud.
And if the forklift operator is working the system, we’re all paying for it. Why can’t he just be an honest freeloader and go on welfare so we’ll know what we’re paying for?
“Videotapes presented at trial showed Rider hauling buckets of feed and working on a bulldozer.”
And they let the guy go? What more did the jury need to see, the defendent out on the golf course teeing off? I don’t understand how this stuff happens…unless the jury is comprised of people doing the same type of fraud!
I just read the article about the work comp employee fraud and that it was a not guilty judgement and sat here and thoughtwhat the HELL have we come to!! We, as a country have become so liberal that even though a person is hurt and now is completely healed that he can haul feed and work in a bulldozer we should still pay him work comp!! This is absolutely ridiculous and it is no wonder why businesses are leaving the country. WE as consumers are going to lead us right out of jobs. This is nothing more than again a “free loader” taking advantage of the system and ultimately we all will pay for this!!
What d’ya expect from a “jury of his peers” in one of the most litigious areas of the country?” Jurors in Florida probably felt sorry for the guy because this is the only retirment income he has . . .
I’ll bet his medical condition and active lifestyle have very little to do with the verdict. Probably more about entitlement than insurance.
Big Corporations are the biggest frauds by taking in BILLIONS by fraud. Martha Stewart is only the tip of the iceberg.
Corporation pick on the little guy just to take away the attention from those Corporations committing FRAUD.
AIG-AON-MARSH-MARTHA-ENRON-HALLIBURTON-THE ENTIRE JAPANESE INSURANCE ENTERPRISE-WORLDCOM all these Corporations committing fraud and the only one that makes it in thr front page of the news is the little guy that is truly injured, the backhoe operator.
Does the little guy hire Public Relations Firms to change public opinion? NO!
Corporations spend Billions to change public opinion and you should wonder why!
I’ve had bilateral carpal tunnel surgery. I did not make a claim against my employer of eight years. It has taken me two years to regain use of my hands and I am still in daily pain and must limit lifting activity while in my 40’s. This man’s back to work efforts may be part of trying to regain strength after injury and I doubt he works like this for eight hour days, five days a week. These activities may not reflect the physical work load his previous employment demanded. I did not sue for relief because I do not want a reputation for being “a freeloader” as so many seem quick to label injured workers. $700 every two weeks does not allow one to maintain a living. So how do you suggest this man survive?
If this, legitimately injured, worker was, indeed, using a “work hardening” approach to rehabilitation so that he could, at 69 years old, rejoin the workforce and become a contributing member of society, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN REFLECTED IN HIS DEFENSE OF THE FRAUD CHARGES and he would have been given a reasonable doubt. Any legitimate rehab program should have been administered with the full knowledge and supervision of the WC court and there would have been no question of possible fraud. In fact it’s very difficult to prove fraud in Oklahoma so only the most blantant, indefensible cases ever get convictions.
Why do so many people find it impossible to believe that there really are crooks and freeloaders in this world???
And as to how should this 69 year old man supported himself? Like the rest of us, by doing a little planning for retirement and/or disability with a pension plan and/or SDT/LTD insurance. But even if he didn’t have to foresight to do ANY planning for the future, he should now be elibible for social security, something many of us have contributed to but will likely never get due to the mismanagement of that system.
If fraud can be justified by desparation, why not armed robbery?
So please don’t support this guy any more than we all already have just because you feel sorry for him for having made poor decisions and found himself in a bad situation.
The article states he filed his injury claim in 1987 and they investigated him for fraud in 2002. The claimant would have been 51 years old when the injury happened. He was awarded $19,045 per year and medical costs. Heavy equipment operaters in the midwest make @ $70,000-80,000 per year. You point is valid – when does an injured worker transition to Social Security? My point about $19K a year not making a living is also valid.
While we’re conceding points, “No Claim”, you’re absolutely right, 15 years is an excessive amount of time to go back on a WC claim. The statute of limitations on violent crimes is often less than that!
It must’ve been that the worker was collecting benefits until recently and enforceable WC fraud statutes weren’t in place 15 years ago.
You’re also right that $20K/year is close to the poverty level, especially for someone used to making 3 to 4X that. That’s why this fellow should have either found a way to:
1) File for a permanent total disability settlement (typically including either a lump sum or life-income benefit + future medical expenses) with the understanding that he would never be able to earn an income again) or,
2) Recognize that his years as a heavy equipment operator or other physcially demanding work are over and take the initiative to be retrained into a vocation less physically demanding. I doubt many of us will be capable of operating heavy machinery much after 50.
So to say that society (or his employer’s insurance company) owes this man the difference between what he “might” have made and what he could collect for not working at all sound just a little Socialist, doesn’t it.
Maybe he should be satisfied with the $300,000 he’s already collected over the past 15 years (for NOT working) and learn to play by the rules clearly defined in the WC statutes. Either you collect (& can’t work) or settle and move on.
One last concession – (and, “No Claim”, I’ve really enjoyed this exchange), since the FL jury found him innocent, any one of your point could very well be valid.
Unfortunately I am personally aware of temporaily, totally disabled workers collecting benefits in my state who have been filmed bronc-riding and particapting in martial arts competitions and that was STILL not enough evidence to make a fraud case.
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It’s that kind of “if it’s OK for big companies, it’s OK for me” that feeds the entitlement mentality we’ve grown to accept.
It doesn’t matter if others can get away with it. If it’s fraud, it’s fraud.
And if the forklift operator is working the system, we’re all paying for it. Why can’t he just be an honest freeloader and go on welfare so we’ll know what we’re paying for?
THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!
“Videotapes presented at trial showed Rider hauling buckets of feed and working on a bulldozer.”
And they let the guy go? What more did the jury need to see, the defendent out on the golf course teeing off? I don’t understand how this stuff happens…unless the jury is comprised of people doing the same type of fraud!
I just read the article about the work comp employee fraud and that it was a not guilty judgement and sat here and thoughtwhat the HELL have we come to!! We, as a country have become so liberal that even though a person is hurt and now is completely healed that he can haul feed and work in a bulldozer we should still pay him work comp!! This is absolutely ridiculous and it is no wonder why businesses are leaving the country. WE as consumers are going to lead us right out of jobs. This is nothing more than again a “free loader” taking advantage of the system and ultimately we all will pay for this!!
What d’ya expect from a “jury of his peers” in one of the most litigious areas of the country?” Jurors in Florida probably felt sorry for the guy because this is the only retirment income he has . . .
I’ll bet his medical condition and active lifestyle have very little to do with the verdict. Probably more about entitlement than insurance.
Actually its our Conservative government leaders that are allowing all our jobs to go oversees. Work comp fraud has nothing to do with being liberal.
Big Corporations are the biggest frauds by taking in BILLIONS by fraud. Martha Stewart is only the tip of the iceberg.
Corporation pick on the little guy just to take away the attention from those Corporations committing FRAUD.
AIG-AON-MARSH-MARTHA-ENRON-HALLIBURTON-THE ENTIRE JAPANESE INSURANCE ENTERPRISE-WORLDCOM all these Corporations committing fraud and the only one that makes it in thr front page of the news is the little guy that is truly injured, the backhoe operator.
Does the little guy hire Public Relations Firms to change public opinion? NO!
Corporations spend Billions to change public opinion and you should wonder why!
JUST THINK ABOUT IT!
I’ve had bilateral carpal tunnel surgery. I did not make a claim against my employer of eight years. It has taken me two years to regain use of my hands and I am still in daily pain and must limit lifting activity while in my 40’s. This man’s back to work efforts may be part of trying to regain strength after injury and I doubt he works like this for eight hour days, five days a week. These activities may not reflect the physical work load his previous employment demanded. I did not sue for relief because I do not want a reputation for being “a freeloader” as so many seem quick to label injured workers. $700 every two weeks does not allow one to maintain a living. So how do you suggest this man survive?
If this, legitimately injured, worker was, indeed, using a “work hardening” approach to rehabilitation so that he could, at 69 years old, rejoin the workforce and become a contributing member of society, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN REFLECTED IN HIS DEFENSE OF THE FRAUD CHARGES and he would have been given a reasonable doubt. Any legitimate rehab program should have been administered with the full knowledge and supervision of the WC court and there would have been no question of possible fraud. In fact it’s very difficult to prove fraud in Oklahoma so only the most blantant, indefensible cases ever get convictions.
Why do so many people find it impossible to believe that there really are crooks and freeloaders in this world???
And as to how should this 69 year old man supported himself? Like the rest of us, by doing a little planning for retirement and/or disability with a pension plan and/or SDT/LTD insurance. But even if he didn’t have to foresight to do ANY planning for the future, he should now be elibible for social security, something many of us have contributed to but will likely never get due to the mismanagement of that system.
If fraud can be justified by desparation, why not armed robbery?
So please don’t support this guy any more than we all already have just because you feel sorry for him for having made poor decisions and found himself in a bad situation.
The article states he filed his injury claim in 1987 and they investigated him for fraud in 2002. The claimant would have been 51 years old when the injury happened. He was awarded $19,045 per year and medical costs. Heavy equipment operaters in the midwest make @ $70,000-80,000 per year. You point is valid – when does an injured worker transition to Social Security? My point about $19K a year not making a living is also valid.
While we’re conceding points, “No Claim”, you’re absolutely right, 15 years is an excessive amount of time to go back on a WC claim. The statute of limitations on violent crimes is often less than that!
It must’ve been that the worker was collecting benefits until recently and enforceable WC fraud statutes weren’t in place 15 years ago.
You’re also right that $20K/year is close to the poverty level, especially for someone used to making 3 to 4X that. That’s why this fellow should have either found a way to:
1) File for a permanent total disability settlement (typically including either a lump sum or life-income benefit + future medical expenses) with the understanding that he would never be able to earn an income again) or,
2) Recognize that his years as a heavy equipment operator or other physcially demanding work are over and take the initiative to be retrained into a vocation less physically demanding. I doubt many of us will be capable of operating heavy machinery much after 50.
So to say that society (or his employer’s insurance company) owes this man the difference between what he “might” have made and what he could collect for not working at all sound just a little Socialist, doesn’t it.
Maybe he should be satisfied with the $300,000 he’s already collected over the past 15 years (for NOT working) and learn to play by the rules clearly defined in the WC statutes. Either you collect (& can’t work) or settle and move on.
One last concession – (and, “No Claim”, I’ve really enjoyed this exchange), since the FL jury found him innocent, any one of your point could very well be valid.
Unfortunately I am personally aware of temporaily, totally disabled workers collecting benefits in my state who have been filmed bronc-riding and particapting in martial arts competitions and that was STILL not enough evidence to make a fraud case.
Thanks for the debate!