I admire Liberty, and they are my competitor, for the fortitude to hang in there… They will need more support if there would be any other action against them…
Lets teach the lawyers a lesson… They are not the rightgeous posse here, they are the outlaws trying to make a name for themselves and a pot full of gold to boot!
GO LIBERTY!
The other carriers aren’t spineless, just publicly held companies that were threatened with criminal lawsuits (and detruction of market value)if they didn’t cave. No surprise that a “mutual” (Liberty)stood up to Spitzer since he couldn’t threaten them with extinction. Just because publicly traded companies caved doesn’t mean they they are spineless–Spitzer pointed a loaded gun at the Boards of Directors–and in Liberty’s case it was merely a pop gun.
And by the way, the independent agents sat around with their thumbs in their mouths the first 6-9 months of this fiasco. Why weren’t NY agents screaming and protesting?
And, also, this ruling comes at no surprise whatsoever to any of the companies that settled. It’s just that by the time they got their due in court, their companies would’ve been destroyed financially since no public company has ever survived a criminal complaint.
Hi Folks,
The Contingent commissions are legal as well they should be.
The past problem was the information was not being disclosed, carriers were stearing insureds to higher commission policies (and usually higher priced)and most importantly there was BID RIGGING (!!) by some our largest insurance carriers.
Maybe Spitzer should be burned at the stake but he wasn’t wrong when he uncovered the cheating (see stearing and bid rigging) that had been occurring.
So..The Liberty Mutual decision was the proper decision but let’s not forget would had let to the accusations and fines.
I sit here and read these posts and it amazes me on how most of the time people miss the point.
The National stock companies used the opportunity to eliminate this practice to reduce their expense and make it look like they had to. I think Liberty can now use this as leverage when asking for more volume.
Bid rigging is wrong and anybody that was doing it should be held accountable, but I know Travelers used this as an opportunity to cut payments to the smaller Independent Agent.
And some folks offer an opinion without having all the facts. One of my carriers simply renamed the contingency and continues to pay out as additional compensation the same overall percentage of written premium as previously paid as profit sharing. Contingencies were not eliminated.
aaaahhhh yes, but do they provide you with the percentage at the beginning of the year and do not tie it to profit for that same year. They look at your production for the year prior and then they tell you what your percentage will be. Again, the small agent that may not be able to increase volume by 10% gets squeezed and the big boys gain by acquisistion.
Liberty Mutual was able to fight because it is a mutual company and not at the mercy of Wall Street. Spitzer and his shake down team evidently did not think of this when he took on a mutual.
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I admire Liberty, and they are my competitor, for the fortitude to hang in there… They will need more support if there would be any other action against them…
Lets teach the lawyers a lesson… They are not the rightgeous posse here, they are the outlaws trying to make a name for themselves and a pot full of gold to boot!
GO LIBERTY!
Sure hope some heads get lopped off as it swings the other way. Happy they did not just cave like the other spineless carriers.
I’ll wager this story doesn’t make the Katie Kouric or Brian Williams’ newcasts…
W
The other carriers aren’t spineless, just publicly held companies that were threatened with criminal lawsuits (and detruction of market value)if they didn’t cave. No surprise that a “mutual” (Liberty)stood up to Spitzer since he couldn’t threaten them with extinction. Just because publicly traded companies caved doesn’t mean they they are spineless–Spitzer pointed a loaded gun at the Boards of Directors–and in Liberty’s case it was merely a pop gun.
And by the way, the independent agents sat around with their thumbs in their mouths the first 6-9 months of this fiasco. Why weren’t NY agents screaming and protesting?
And, also, this ruling comes at no surprise whatsoever to any of the companies that settled. It’s just that by the time they got their due in court, their companies would’ve been destroyed financially since no public company has ever survived a criminal complaint.
Hi Folks,
The Contingent commissions are legal as well they should be.
The past problem was the information was not being disclosed, carriers were stearing insureds to higher commission policies (and usually higher priced)and most importantly there was BID RIGGING (!!) by some our largest insurance carriers.
Maybe Spitzer should be burned at the stake but he wasn’t wrong when he uncovered the cheating (see stearing and bid rigging) that had been occurring.
So..The Liberty Mutual decision was the proper decision but let’s not forget would had let to the accusations and fines.
Mike
Thanks Mike.
I sit here and read these posts and it amazes me on how most of the time people miss the point.
The National stock companies used the opportunity to eliminate this practice to reduce their expense and make it look like they had to. I think Liberty can now use this as leverage when asking for more volume.
Bid rigging is wrong and anybody that was doing it should be held accountable, but I know Travelers used this as an opportunity to cut payments to the smaller Independent Agent.
And some folks offer an opinion without having all the facts. One of my carriers simply renamed the contingency and continues to pay out as additional compensation the same overall percentage of written premium as previously paid as profit sharing. Contingencies were not eliminated.
aaaahhhh yes, but do they provide you with the percentage at the beginning of the year and do not tie it to profit for that same year. They look at your production for the year prior and then they tell you what your percentage will be. Again, the small agent that may not be able to increase volume by 10% gets squeezed and the big boys gain by acquisistion.
Liberty Mutual was able to fight because it is a mutual company and not at the mercy of Wall Street. Spitzer and his shake down team evidently did not think of this when he took on a mutual.
Your incorrect regarding Travelers and the small agent. The new replacement program of Travelers is actually superior.