Mark wrote:
\”As for a larger fine for a car who pulls out in front of a motorcycle, why is a motorcycle different than any other vehicle on the roads? How could you prove that the person who pulled out didn\’t see the cycle? More laws and fines will not change anything.\”
Personally I see no reason why there should be a difference between a fine and penalty for pulling out in front of a car vs a motorcycle Mark. Right now however, the law, the fine, and the penalty, for pulling out in front of a motorcycle is usually less because of the \”I did not see them\” excuse.
As far as proving a car pulled out in front of a motorcycle, thats easy. Just investigate one of the grisly bloody crash scenes and it is blatantly obivious.
And if stiffer laws and penalties do not have any effect, I would direct your attention to the drunk driving program which efficacy rates been well proven and has saved untold lives.
Getting back to the \”I did not see them\” excuse, I would say that crap don\’t wash. If you don\’t see them its simply because you did not look for them. And that is on you, not the person whos life you ruined. Helmets have a very limited ability to prevent TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury). There are factors such as Shearing, and Coup/Contracoup that effect helmeted or unhelmeted heads in impact crashes. I suggest anyone weighing in on the helmet issue educate themselves before making wildly emotional rants about how stupid bikers are for arguing the merits of helmets. Also the vast majority of crashes cause paralysis, limb loss, blunt force trauma related internal injuries, and extensive othopedic injuries. Helmets don\’t touch these painful, devastating, and life altering results of BAD DRIVERS.
As I have pointed out repeatedly. Helmets have a utility. AS part of a comprehensive motorcycle safety program, which involves educating all motorists on the issues concerning the motorcycling citizens of Michigan, instead of forcing helmets on us to appease the insurance industry, who are just trying to eliminate costs purpetrated by their automobile driving customers.
There are 50 times more head injuries in Michigan each year from CAR crashes, than there are motorcycle crashes. Race car drivers of evey type and style wear helmets. If helmets are good for bikers, why are they not good for car drivers? Why hasn\’t the Insurance Industry lauded its concern for automobile drivers heads? The Constitution of the United States of America gaurantees me the right to be free from discrimination. If helmets are mandatory for me, they need to be mandatory for you. If your adult enough to decide what safety gear you want to wear, the same goes for me.
Dang, wish I had found this discussion earlier. Rusty, you have the right belief and I love the way you lay it out. I just wanted to add that I often ask non riders just how is a helmet supposed to save my life when I am hit broadsided by a 8000 lb vehicle traveling 65+mph??!! Our great former governor ran a stop sign and killed one of those \”bikers\”. Gov got off with a slap while the family lost their husband, father, son & brother.
To everyone out there, push EDUCATION not legislation!
A helmet did save my life when a pickup backed out in front of me. I lost a leg, but the piece taken out of my helmet when I hit the truck would have been out of my head. I just don\’t buy the arguements about helmets. My opinion.
I prefer it when motorcyclists do not wear helmuts for two reasons: it culls the herd and hopefully the motorcyclist will die from their injuries due to not wearing a helmut. I prefer them dying as to living and being a veggie because death cases are so much easier and cheaper to settle than a veggie/para/quad case.
Last time I checked the insurance industry spends a lot of money testing cars to make sure they are safe. I haven\’t seen the latest motorcycle with airbags on it.
To take your argument one step further, why can the government make me wear a seat belt? Sure, they save lives, but it should be my right to choose to wear it or not.
How about seat belts in airplanes, where they serve very little purpose.
From the research I have read so far on the Airbags which come on Goldwing models I am impressed with the claims. I would be inclined to consider that kind of equipment.
I do believe seatbelts should also be an adults choice. I also know statistics prove seatbelts far, far, out perform helmets as a lifesaving measure.
Wearing a seatbelt on a plane is part of the agreement you make for paying to fly on that airline. Thats an airline regulation.
Once again, its not about the utility of helmets, its about the futility of helmet laws.
I have pointed out repeatedly that helmet education as part of a comprehensive educational program for both motorcyclists and automobile drivers will more dramatically decrease deaths and injuries than helmets alone.
The big lie is in promoting and pushing helmets as a motorcycle safety agenda.
What the heck kind of comment is that, do you have the same attitude toward riders in 30 states that do not currently have helmet laws, such as in this area, Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, Pennslvania, Minnesota, all of the so called great lakes, except one, Michigan.
Why do you think many of us spend our tourism dollars in the other Great Lake States.
The comment by breathlessly is a prime example of the ignorance and prejudice of others against motorcycle riders. I have been involved in 3 or 4 near accidents caused by car and truck drivers not looking before the move into another lane as well as a woman who could not wait and passed me on the right as I was turning right. In all those occasions I was following the speed laws, using my turn signal. Just because I ride a motorcycle does not automatically convict me of being in violation of driving laws when there is or is not an accidnet. Stupidity is a human act and not perpetuated by what you drive or ride!
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Mark wrote:
\”As for a larger fine for a car who pulls out in front of a motorcycle, why is a motorcycle different than any other vehicle on the roads? How could you prove that the person who pulled out didn\’t see the cycle? More laws and fines will not change anything.\”
Personally I see no reason why there should be a difference between a fine and penalty for pulling out in front of a car vs a motorcycle Mark. Right now however, the law, the fine, and the penalty, for pulling out in front of a motorcycle is usually less because of the \”I did not see them\” excuse.
As far as proving a car pulled out in front of a motorcycle, thats easy. Just investigate one of the grisly bloody crash scenes and it is blatantly obivious.
And if stiffer laws and penalties do not have any effect, I would direct your attention to the drunk driving program which efficacy rates been well proven and has saved untold lives.
Getting back to the \”I did not see them\” excuse, I would say that crap don\’t wash. If you don\’t see them its simply because you did not look for them. And that is on you, not the person whos life you ruined. Helmets have a very limited ability to prevent TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury). There are factors such as Shearing, and Coup/Contracoup that effect helmeted or unhelmeted heads in impact crashes. I suggest anyone weighing in on the helmet issue educate themselves before making wildly emotional rants about how stupid bikers are for arguing the merits of helmets. Also the vast majority of crashes cause paralysis, limb loss, blunt force trauma related internal injuries, and extensive othopedic injuries. Helmets don\’t touch these painful, devastating, and life altering results of BAD DRIVERS.
As I have pointed out repeatedly. Helmets have a utility. AS part of a comprehensive motorcycle safety program, which involves educating all motorists on the issues concerning the motorcycling citizens of Michigan, instead of forcing helmets on us to appease the insurance industry, who are just trying to eliminate costs purpetrated by their automobile driving customers.
There are 50 times more head injuries in Michigan each year from CAR crashes, than there are motorcycle crashes. Race car drivers of evey type and style wear helmets. If helmets are good for bikers, why are they not good for car drivers? Why hasn\’t the Insurance Industry lauded its concern for automobile drivers heads? The Constitution of the United States of America gaurantees me the right to be free from discrimination. If helmets are mandatory for me, they need to be mandatory for you. If your adult enough to decide what safety gear you want to wear, the same goes for me.
Dang, wish I had found this discussion earlier. Rusty, you have the right belief and I love the way you lay it out. I just wanted to add that I often ask non riders just how is a helmet supposed to save my life when I am hit broadsided by a 8000 lb vehicle traveling 65+mph??!! Our great former governor ran a stop sign and killed one of those \”bikers\”. Gov got off with a slap while the family lost their husband, father, son & brother.
To everyone out there, push EDUCATION not legislation!
A helmet did save my life when a pickup backed out in front of me. I lost a leg, but the piece taken out of my helmet when I hit the truck would have been out of my head. I just don\’t buy the arguements about helmets. My opinion.
I prefer it when motorcyclists do not wear helmuts for two reasons: it culls the herd and hopefully the motorcyclist will die from their injuries due to not wearing a helmut. I prefer them dying as to living and being a veggie because death cases are so much easier and cheaper to settle than a veggie/para/quad case.
Last time I checked the insurance industry spends a lot of money testing cars to make sure they are safe. I haven\’t seen the latest motorcycle with airbags on it.
To take your argument one step further, why can the government make me wear a seat belt? Sure, they save lives, but it should be my right to choose to wear it or not.
How about seat belts in airplanes, where they serve very little purpose.
From the research I have read so far on the Airbags which come on Goldwing models I am impressed with the claims. I would be inclined to consider that kind of equipment.
I do believe seatbelts should also be an adults choice. I also know statistics prove seatbelts far, far, out perform helmets as a lifesaving measure.
Wearing a seatbelt on a plane is part of the agreement you make for paying to fly on that airline. Thats an airline regulation.
Once again, its not about the utility of helmets, its about the futility of helmet laws.
I have pointed out repeatedly that helmet education as part of a comprehensive educational program for both motorcyclists and automobile drivers will more dramatically decrease deaths and injuries than helmets alone.
The big lie is in promoting and pushing helmets as a motorcycle safety agenda.
What the heck kind of comment is that, do you have the same attitude toward riders in 30 states that do not currently have helmet laws, such as in this area, Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, Pennslvania, Minnesota, all of the so called great lakes, except one, Michigan.
Why do you think many of us spend our tourism dollars in the other Great Lake States.
Yes, I do.
The comment by breathlessly is a prime example of the ignorance and prejudice of others against motorcycle riders. I have been involved in 3 or 4 near accidents caused by car and truck drivers not looking before the move into another lane as well as a woman who could not wait and passed me on the right as I was turning right. In all those occasions I was following the speed laws, using my turn signal. Just because I ride a motorcycle does not automatically convict me of being in violation of driving laws when there is or is not an accidnet. Stupidity is a human act and not perpetuated by what you drive or ride!